House of Lords
Monday, 2nd April 2001.
The House met at half-past two of the clock: The LORD CHANCELLOR on the Woolsack.
Prayers--Read by the Lord Bishop of Oxford.
Zimbabwe
Lord Blaker asked Her Majesty's Government:
- What dialogues the European Union and the Commonwealth are having with the Government of Zimbabwe; and what progress has been made.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Scotland of Asthal) : My Lords, the European Union has initiated a dialogue with the Government of Zimbabwe under Article 8 of the Cotonou agreement. Heads of Mission of the EU Troika (Sweden, Belgium and the Commission) in Harare have met with the Government of Zimbabwe to discuss how to take the dialogue forward. We are awaiting the government's response. As far as the Commonwealth is concerned, the Commonwealth Secretary General is responsible for taking forward the decisions taken by the Commonwealth Ministerial Action Group at its meeting on 19th and 20th March.
Lord Blaker: My Lords, I welcome the fact that the European Union is taking steps under Article 8 of the Cotonou agreement--I recall that that allows for action and not simply for words--can the Minister confirm that Mr Mugabe has shown himself not even prepared to consider the new and more generous proposals for land reform put forward by the Commercial Farmers' Union? Even the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting in October were to take new steps in the direction of better arrangements for dealing with countries that show themselves to be in breach of the basic principles of the Commonwealth, is there not likely to be a great deal more ruin in Zimbabwe before October if the world continues not to act but simply to talk?
Baroness Scotland of Asthal: My Lords, I recognise the concern of the noble Lord about the current position, but the fact that CMAG met and suggested that there should be a three-country team to speak to Zimbabwe is important. We are waiting to see what comes of that. That is not simply talk; it is a positive action to try to ensure that Mr Mugabe understands the nature of the concern being expressed internationally.
On land reform, noble Lords know that we have said consistently that we would support a land reform programme which was transparent, fair and
cost-effective and which formed part of the wider programme of the Government of Zimbabwe to reduce poverty as agreed by them in the 1998 Land Conference. We are doing everything that we can, as are our international partners, to ensure that Mr Mugabe understands the nature of the concerns and addresses them with greater vigour than he has done so far.
Baroness Williams of Crosby: My Lords, in view of the generous nature of the offer made by the Commercial Farmers' Union, can the Minister tell the House whether the World Bank has shown any interest in matching funding for that purpose? On a different point, can she also tell the House whether the leaders of the opposition are currently safe or have fled the country?
Baroness Scotland of Asthal: My Lords, I cannot give the noble Baroness an answer in relation to whether the World Bank has indicated its willingness to find matching funds, but I can undertake to make inquiries, and I shall write to the noble Baroness in due course.
I can reassure the House that we are in contact with the opposition. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary last spoke to Morgan Tsvangirai, the president of the Movement for Democratic Change, on 19th March. It is important that we keep proper track of exactly what is happening, listen acutely to the advice and to what is said to us by the opposition.
Lord Peyton of Yeovil: My Lords, can the noble Baroness consider stretching the dialogue to include the Government of France, as it may then come to light whether President Chirac is more animated by his dislike of this country or his sudden liking for Mr Mugabe?
Baroness Scotland of Asthal: My Lords, I can reassure the noble Lord that France is fully engaged in the EU dialogue. I presume that the noble Lord refers to the fact that Mr Mugabe visited France to discuss these matters. However, it is right to tell the House that I do not believe that he found that an entirely satisfactory experience. Everyone was given the opportunity to explore with him the difficulties with which he is challenged in Zimbabwe. I believe that the fact that he gave himself that opportunity to hear and to listen is a matter for congratulation as opposed to commiseration.
Baroness Chalker of Wallasey: My Lords, will the Minister undertake to talk with the Government of South Africa, who, despite criticism in some British press, have been making a tremendous effort to try to get other ministers, as well as President Mugabe, to see the damage that is being caused by the current policy to the whole of southern Africa?
Baroness Scotland of Asthal: My Lords, I can certainly reassure the noble Baroness that we are talking seriously to our South African colleagues on these issues. The Government of Zimbabwe are clearly in breach of certain of the principles. We welcome President Mbeki's announcement that he will soon meet President Mugabe. My honourable friend Mr Wilson met the South African Deputy Foreign Minister on 6th March when they also discussed the situation in Zimbabwe. So we are taking seriously the opportunities that are available to us as a result of interest shown by our South African colleagues.
Lord Campbell of Alloway: My Lords, does the Minister have information on the position of the judiciary in that country?
Baroness Scotland of Asthal: My Lords, it is right that there has been a great deal of concern about the judiciary in Zimbabwe. We share the concerns expressed by the UN special rapporteur on the independence of the judges and lawyers. He recently issued several statements and on 12th February he said:
- "The Government [of Zimbabwe] must comply with its obligations under international standards and stop harassing and pressuring members of the judiciary. The allegation that the Government has called upon judges to seek early retirement will be seen as a clear violation of Principle 2 of the UN Basic Principles on the independence of the judiciary".
Lord Craig of Radley: My Lords, is it true, as Dr Mugabe has asserted, that his government had reached an arrangement with the previous British government on recompense for the white farmers? He further claims that that agreement was set aside by the present Government. Can the Minister help us about that?
Baroness Scotland of Asthal: My Lords, that is not true. We have consistently set out the basis upon which we will assist as regards land reform. That has not changed. The fast-track programme does not meet the conditions which were set out and we have urged the Government of Zimbabwe to take immediate steps to end the illegal occupation of farms and to restore the rule of law.
Since 1980 the United Kingdom has contributed £44 million to land reform. The EU has also been a major contributor towards land reform in Zimbabwe. Commercial farms bring in about 40 per cent of Zimbabwe's foreign currency and account for 19 per cent of its GDP. We are very much doing our bit, but it means that Mr Mugabe must address the matter seriously and, if I may say so, honestly.
Glencairn
2.45 p.m.
Lord Dubs asked Her Majesty's Government:
- When the British Ambassador to the Republic of Ireland will vacate his official residence, Glencairn; for how much the building was sold; and what was the cost of buying a suitable alternative.
Baroness Scotland of Asthal: My Lords, we have acquired a replacement residence for our Ambassador which is presently being refurbished. Our Ambassador will move to his new residence on completion of the work. It is not our policy to reveal details of price and other terms agreed in such transactions, though I can tell the House that this transaction represented excellent value for money for the British taxpayer.
Lord Dubs: My Lords, I accept that there may be occasions when it is appropriate to dispose of embassies or ambassadorial residences. However, does my noble friend agree that in some countries we occupy buildings of such historic merit and prestige that they add significantly to our diplomatic effectiveness in those countries? For obvious reasons, would it not be a pity if we were to dispose of buildings in that category? I hope that my noble friend can give some assurances to that effect.
Baroness Scotland of Asthal: My Lords, my noble friend is right in saying that some buildings are of such enormous significance that it would be unwise to dispose of them. I can give that reassurance. However, in the 1998 Comprehensive Spending Review, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office agreed an asset recycling target with the Treasury to generate £90 million through sales of properties for the triennium financial year 1999-2000 to 2001-02 and £100 million in the triennium financial year 2001-02 to 2003-04. The proceeds are to be reinvested in capital projects. Targeted properties are those which are over scale, inefficient, poor value for money, not fit for the purpose or of considerable developmental potential.
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