Examination of Witnesses (Questions 80-94)|
WEDNESDAY 10 JULY 2002
80. So they were not part of this?
(Mr Tiner) No.
(Mr Daykin) We transferred 20 people, of whom 15 were
actuarial staff and three trainees, I think.
81. How many of them are still with you?
(Mr Hewitson) I think, only one has left; the turnover
has been quite low.
(Mr Daykin) Several left us before the transfer took
place, but I think the ones who did not want to go to the FSA
went earlier. If I could just add that the difference is that
we are mainly trying to recruit actuaries with pensions experience,
whereas, primarily, the FSA have been looking for people with
insurance, and particularly life insurance, experience; and pensions
actuaries are in greater demand at the moment.
82. So you are fishing in different pools?
(Mr Daykin) Yes.
83. The final query on Resource Accounts
is to do with premises. In the Accounts, you are renting a building
at £410,000 a year, but you refer to a commitment to take
a new building at a rental that rises to £1,300,000, something
called Tooke's Court. Could you explain that; how do we jump from
£410,000 a year to £1.365 million?
(Mr Daykin) We do not know what the rental would have
been at our present accommodation, but, effectively, we are being
forced out of that accommodation, so we have had to seek other
accommodation. It is part of a general reorganisation of Government
Departments, which involves the Customs & Excise and Treasury
and Inland Revenue and us and the Department of Health, all sort
of moving around, and, basically, the Department of Health, I
think, primarily, will save a lot of money by moving into our
accommodation, and, therefore, it was felt to be good value overall
for us to move into this new building.
84. It was felt to be good value overall,
but your rent is trebling?
(Mr Daykin) The business case is being looked at in
the whole, for all of the Departments that are involved in this
85. What, across Whitehall, do you mean,
or across the Treasury?
(Mr Daykin) Across all the Departments I mentioned,
Treasury, Customs & Excise, Inland Revenue, Government Actuary's
Department and the Department of Health.
86. But you are the foregoer, your rental
is going up three-fold?
(Mr Daykin) This is part of the current Spending Review,
and this general assessment of the value for money of this whole
rearrangement. This is a building which was built for Government,
and, in fact, from our point of view, it results in quite a satisfactory
rental position, because we have a more or less guaranteed rental
stream over the next 20 years, which we do not have at the moment;
we are going to be able to sub-let some of the building, in order
to offset that cost.
87. Where is Tooke's Court?
(Mr Daykin) It is just off High Holborn, near the
88. And £1.3 million a year is reasonable,
(Mr Daykin) Yes.
89. What proportion will you let to somebody
(Mr Daykin) Probably, two floors, out of six, including
90. A very brief question. I have noticed,
in the Report that we got yesterday, your survey of occupational
pension schemes, that the responses are very slow in coming in,
and that there is going to be some delay in publishing the results
of that survey?
(Mr Daykin) Rather the contrary; there is no delay,
we are actually going to publish the results, I think, at the
end of this month.
91. It does say: "Responses were received
only fairly slowly over the following months"?
(Mr Daykin) Yes. We were expecting responses to be
all in by the end of last year, and because they were coming in
slowly we instituted a number of follow-up efforts to increase
the response rate, and that resulted in us getting an adequate
response, which we have now analysed, and we are in the process
of producing a document which will be published at the end of
92. And that review, which, of course, is
an extremely important public document, will be published in the
normal way, with the full quality of information, at the normal
(Mr Daykin) The intention is to publish a 20-page
document at the end of this month, in order to get the information
into the public arena as quickly as possible. We will produce,
in due course, a full volume of information, as we have in previous
times; but what we intend to do this time is make available, from
later in the year, the database of information on our website,
which will enable people, effectively, to interrogate the database
and pull out whatever tables they are interested in from the information
93. I see; but, of course, that information,
in the autumn of this year, will refer to the situation as it
was over a year earlier?
(Mr Daykin) Yes; well that is inevitable, I am afraid,
because we have to write to companies, after the closure of the
year in question, and get them to complete information. It will
review the position as at the year 2000.
94. The year 2000; so it will not provide
us with proper, up-to-date reporting on the state of occupational
(Mr Daykin) It is, if you like, a mark in the ground.
We cannot always be up-to-date, because there is always this lag
in getting the information, and we are trying to produce information
not just about a few schemes but about the whole cross-section
of schemes in the industry, which requires us to use the General
Household Survey and the information from the Registry of Pension
Schemes, in order to go to schemes and get information from them.
It is not something that can be done on an instantaneous basis;
and this is a much faster timetable than has been achieved previously.
Chairman: We are going to leave it there.
Mr Daykin, Mr Tiner, thank you and your colleagues very much indeed.