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Lord Brett: My Lords, it is not a question of waiting for the Americans. Strenuous efforts continue to be made by the United States authorities, certainly through Senator Mitchell. I commend to the House the statement of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the European
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Lord Clinton-Davis: Since President Obama called for a halt to existing settlements, has not George Mitchell, the United States envoy to the Middle East, indicated on the President's behalf a softening of the American stance and the resumption of peace talks free of incendiary rhetoric?
Lord Brett: My Lords, my noble friend makes an important point. We have to seek stepping stones that take us not to a settlement at this stage but to the negotiating table. Some of the statements made are not helpful in that regard, but my experience of the United Nations is that what is said before negotiations start is not as important as what is said within them. That endeavour continues and our Government are as active as they can be in seeking to persuade all the parties that until those talks start there can be no prospect of a two-state solution.
Lord Howe of Aberavon: My Lords-
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, I think it is the turn of the Conservative Benches.
Lord Howe of Aberavon: Does the Minister recollect that the Balfour Declaration made nearly 100 years ago by Her Majesty's Government expressly provides that it is,
- "clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil ... rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine"?
Granted that those are the words of Her Majesty's Government, should we not be even more enthusiastic than the President of the United States in pressing that case with all vigour?
Lord Brett: My Lords, I confess that my study of the Balfour Declaration was not concurrent with it being debated in your Lordships' House, although there may be noble Lords who were there. To some degree, it has been overtaken by the legislation of the United Nations in creating Israel as a state. The points made by the noble and learned Lord are well taken and in that sense they remain as valid as they were at the time of the Balfour Declaration.
Lord Low of Dalston: My Lords, I recently visited Gaza as a member of a 60-strong European parliamentary delegation and guest of the Campaign to End the Siege on Gaza. The inhabitants of Gaza are living in conditions of great deprivation as a result of the effective blockade of Gaza, which means that only the bare minimum of supplies of food and medicines, and barely any of the materials that are so badly needed to rebuild the broken infrastructure, can get in.
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Lord Brett: Again, I commend the statement of the European Foreign Affairs Committee in December. It is also true to say that while there was only a trickle of commodities and lorries getting into Gaza, that is improving. However, it has not improved far enough or fast enough. The United Nations is clear that there is not sufficient ability to reconstruct and take away some of the misery from the lives of Palestinians. We continue to press the Government of Israel. We welcome the improved access and the taking away of blockades on the roads, but we ask for full removal so that we can provide assistance through DfID and others to help to bring the Palestinian people back from the misery in which they are currently living.
Baroness Williams of Crosby: My Lords, does the Minister agree that we are looking at the steady establishment by the Government of Israel of what are called "facts on the ground", and that we are already at the point at which a viable Palestinian state is virtually impossible because of the spread of settlements and the control of aquifers? Will he and Her Majesty's Government consider seriously how they can make a reality of what they constantly repeat, which becomes more and more vanishing in fact?
Lord Brett: My Lords, I cannot share the noble Baroness's pessimism that a viable Palestinian state is not possible. A great deal more good will on the ground, and a great more give and take, are required. The noble Baroness can rest assured that the United Kingdom Government do not stop simply at making or supporting statements in Europe. We are very active at ministerial level-with Ministers in Israel and in our talks with the Palestinian Authority-in seeking both to assist and encourage. Frankly, it is not helpful to say that we have an impossible task, because the only certainty is that those who do not want us to succeed will agree with that.
Agriculture: Chinese Lanterns
Question
11.31 am
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they have considered the threat posed by Chinese lanterns to the well-being of livestock; and what action they propose to take in that regard.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Davies of Oldham): My Lords, we recognise the concern among livestock and horse keepers. Anecdotal evidence suggests that, while few animals have been affected, the impacts can be severe. Chinese lanterns are enjoyed by many but this should not be at the expense of litter in our countryside or injury to animals. Biodegradable lanterns are available and we will work with interested parties to promote the use of models that do not cause harm or environmental damage.
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Baroness Fookes: My Lords, does the Minister appreciate that large numbers of these lanterns are being set off, that each contains a lighted candle and bamboo and wire structures and that there is considerable anecdotal evidence of their harm to animals either at the time of their use or when found chopped up in silage or hay? Will he go further and seek an outright ban on these apparently enchanting creatures, shall we call them?
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, no doubt the release of Chinese lanterns is fun and a part of celebrations. However, we emphasise that we expect the industry to move to the biodegradable lanterns that are available and do not contain wire. Those do not present the danger to livestock that has been reported, which has always been in terms of the danger from the wire.
Lord Greaves: My Lords, this is an extremely important issue because these objects are dangerous to the cattle and horses that may come across them. How long are the Government prepared to give the industry to sort itself out before they introduce a regulatory procedure banning these dangerous lanterns?
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, the National Farmers' Union officially brought a case to our attention recently, but the use of these lanterns for fun and enjoyment has been going on for several years and we should not exaggerate their impact. However, it is clear that biodegradable lanterns are available and we will talk to the interested parties and ensure that the industry moves over to such lanterns.
Lord Richard: My Lords, will my noble friend assure me that the abolition of Chinese lanterns will not be in the Labour Party's manifesto at the next election?
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, we may have preparations for the use of biodegradable lanterns in the celebrations after the election victory.
Lord Taylor of Holbeach: My Lords, I am fairly certain that it will not be in the Conservative Party's manifesto either. I speak as a member of the National Farmers' Union, which is not seeking an outright ban. The Minister is right in saying that there are ways forward on this issue, but does he not agree that one of the biggest problems is that people using these lanterns are ignorant of the threat that they present to livestock, crops and feedstock? Does he also agree that the key issue is to get the suppliers and manufacturers to give clear instructions on their use?
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, I agree entirely with the noble Lord. The recent flurry of publicity, the efforts that the Government will make hereon and the industry will bring to people's attention the care that needs to be exercised with regard to the lanterns. There is no doubt that there is irresponsible use-although I have to say that I participated in an event last year entirely ignorant of the potential consequences.
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Baroness Masham of Ilton: My Lords, was the pedigree prize-winning cow that was killed by the wire from one of these lanterns in December covered by insurance? Is the Minister aware that Germany and Australia have banned these flying lanterns?
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, I am aware that drastic action has been taken by a number of countries, although the incidence of the release of lanterns has been far greater elsewhere than we have experienced in Britain-I think that 1 million of them were released at one time in the United States, which sounds a prodigious number. The use of the lanterns in Britain has been fairly modest, but it is obviously a growing piece of celebration and fun. I entirely agree with the noble Baroness that we need to address ourselves to the matter. However, if we guarantee that the lanterns are safe, the issue of insurance will not arise.
Lord MacKenzie of Culkein: My Lords, I pick up on a point made from the Conservative Front Bench about the education of the public in the use of these lanterns. Last week, in the village of Scourie in north-west Sutherland, a member of the public mistook Chinese lanterns for marine distress flares and the coastguard cliff rescue team was called out. Fortunately, the police identified them for what they were before the Lochinver lifeboat went to sea, but it is important that the public are educated properly in the use of these things, because life and limb are at risk when cliff rescue teams and lifeboats go to sea on mistaken errands.
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend, who is very knowledgeable about these issues. The advice that is given is that such lanterns should not be set off within five miles of the coastline for exactly the reason that he identified. We clearly have work to do in educating the public and that is certainly one dimension that we will need to bring to the public's attention.
Transport: Motoring Lobby
Question
11.37 am
To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what influence the motoring lobby has on his transport policy and appraisal schemes.
The Secretary of State for Transport (Lord Adonis): My Lords, the Department for Transport consults a range of stakeholders as part of its commitment to evidence-based policy-making, and I consider all representations made to me, including those from motoring organisations. However, all policy decisions are reached properly and independently.
The Earl of Glasgow: My Lords, I thank the Minister very much for that Answer. However, I believe that about 80 per cent of the transport budget is spent on roads-at least, 80 per cent of the capital budget. If, as I hope, the Minister would like to spend more on public transport, particularly on the railways, does he feel it necessary for political reasons to continue to
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Lord Adonis: My Lords, I am glad to say that the noble Earl's statistics are incorrect. If you aggregate revenue as well as capital spending by my department, for the current year, its budget is being spent as follows: £4.1 billion on rail, £3.1 billion on strategic roads, and, in addition, £2.7 billion is being allocated to London, a good deal of which is going on public transport.
Baroness Hanham: My Lords, does not the Secretary of State agree that the revenue raised from motorists is a very salient aspect of the finances of this country? The suggestion that they should be penalised in any way will not help that. Will he underscore his support for the fact that motorists should not be under too many coshes?
Lord Adonis: My Lords, motorists have legitimate interests that need to be properly protected by the Government. Indeed, we are doing so. We are now embarked on a five-year investment programme in the strategic road network, and £6 billion will be invested in improving the strategic road network and enhancing capacity. We are doing our duty by motorists as well as by other transport users.
Lord Snape: My Lords, does the Minister accept that, in the opinion of many of us, the motoring lobby has been dictating transport policy in this country since it succeeded in abolishing the man with the red flag who used to walk in front of motor cars? Will he tell the House why appraisal schemes for road and rail matters are so different?
Lord Adonis: My Lords, as my noble friend will be aware, we have updated the new approach to appraisal and, in particular, our treatment of fuel duty-a matter of concern before-which now makes it possible better to capture the benefits that apply to public transport schemes. That change has been widely welcomed.
Lord Roberts of Conwy: My Lords, what action are the Government taking to assist local authorities that are responsible for many of the roads now suffering from potholes as a result of the bad weather?
Lord Adonis: My Lords, we allocate them very substantial resources. In the current financial year, £1.1 billion is being allocated to local authorities, which enables them to improve their roads and fulfil their other transport responsibilities.
Lord Berkeley: My Lords, I welcome my noble friend's answer to my noble friend Lord Snape on the appraisal methodology, but does the new approach include taking into account the value of carbon for all forms of transport?
Lord Adonis: My Lords, as I think my noble friend is aware because he studies these issues in great detail, it gives a much better allowance to the cost of carbon in the appraisal of schemes.
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Lord Geddes: My Lords, the Secretary of State gave a very interesting breakdown of his department's budget between rail, road and London. Will he advise the House how much of the London portion is to do with the Olympics?
Lord Adonis: My Lords, only a small proportion is directly concerned with the Olympics. Most of the £2.7 billion I referred to is to enable the mayor to fulfil his wider transport responsibilities.
Motorways: Mobile Phone and GPS Signals
Question
11 42 am
Asked By Baroness Gardner of Parkes
To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what use his department or its agencies is making or intends to make of mobile phone and GPS signals for motorway modelling purposes.
The Secretary of State for Transport (Lord Adonis): My Lords, the department has for several years used in-vehicle GPS data to produce interurban congestion public service agreement statistics. Anonymised Trafficmaster data are used to estimate average journey times between motorway junctions.
Mobile phone data are not currently used by the department, and I would not agree to using traceable personal data that raised genuine privacy concerns
Baroness Gardner of Parkes: What is the relationship between ITIS Holdings and the Department for Transport? Has the department made an assessment of whether safeguards are needed to deal with the privacy implications of the use of mobile phones, which the department says it is not using, but which ITIS is certainly using, to model traffic?
Lord Adonis: My Lords, the department has engaged ITIS as a contractor in the past, but I can give the noble Baroness a categoric assurance that the department currently makes no use whatever of mobile phone data for tracking vehicle movements.
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean: Does the Secretary of State not think that people who have mobile phones should be made aware that their mobile phones have been used to track journeys, the nature of journeys, the number of people in the car and so on?
Lord Adonis: My Lords, as I said, those data are not being used by the Government.
Baroness Hanham:My Lords, something is clearly being done by the highway authorities with mobile and GPS signals to map out traffic. Can the Minister give us some suggestion, some clue, about what that information will be used for or is being used for because it must be being done under the eye of the Government?
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