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I thought that the amendment produced by the NSPCC was extremely neat. This is a new situation. We cannot say that that has nothing to do with the birth registration, because the Government have made it part of it by putting it in the Bill. I am extremely tempted to test the opinion of the House, but I know this House. As the Minister has suggested a meeting, immediately everyone wants to go to the meeting to put the case, so I know that the momentum will have gone out of the vote. But I ask the Minister whether such a meeting might lead to a government amendment at Third Reading.
If it does not, I am still tempted to test the opinion of the House, but if the meeting is genuine with the possibility of an amendment, I will withdraw the amendment. I ask the noble Baroness to intervene to tell me whether there is the possibility of finding an amendment at Third Reading to reflect the debate that has taken place today. The comments made, especially by the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, who knows about the matter, should not be ignored.
Baroness Crawley: My Lords, while of course we would remain open to the experience and advice that we as a department would receive at such a meeting, I cannot give a guarantee of what would arise from the meeting.
Baroness Thomas of Winchester: I am not asking for a cut-and-dried guarantee, I am just asking for the possibility-as long as the noble Baroness does not say that it will just be a discussion, as long as there is the possibility of an amendment at Third Reading. If not, I hope that the House will agree that I have the right to bring back an amendment at Third Reading, although I know that the House is wary of amendments at Third Reading when there has been long discussion at the previous two stages. If I can be assured that there is the possibility of a government amendment or if they will accept my amendment, on that basis, I will gladly accept her offer of a discussion and will beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Baroness Crawley: Before the noble Baroness sits down, I cannot give that assurance that there will be an amendment at Third Reading coming from that meeting. It is not possible for me to give that assurance.
Baroness Thomas of Winchester: Can the noble Baroness just tell me whether she rules out an amendment from the government now or not?
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Baroness Crawley: The noble Baroness is entitled to raise an amendment, if she wishes to; she is entitled to test the opinion of the House if she wishes to. I certainly say to her that we would go to a meeting with a very positive attitude, but I cannot say any more than that.
Lord Northbourne: Am I right in thinking that it would be perfectly open to the noble Baroness to bring back her amendment at Third Reading?
Baroness Crawley: That is a matter for the noble Baroness.
Baroness Thomas of Winchester: I think that I will accept the positive attitude on the part of the Government and the meeting and, on that basis, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
89: Schedule 6, page 95, line 35, at end insert ", and
(d) provide that in prescribed cases where the person is not required by the regulations to sign the register, the entry in the register is to be taken for the purposes of this Act to have been signed by the person."
Schedule 7 : Repeals and revocations
93: Schedule 7, page 105, line 34, column 2, leave out "and (3)(a)" and insert ", (3)(a), (7A), (8)(aa) and (8A)".
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97: Clause 50, page 52, line 4, after "provisions);" insert-
"section (Power to rename council tax benefit) (power to rename council tax benefit);"
98: Clause 51, page 52, line 17, at end insert-
"section (Power to up-rate benefits following review in tax year 2009-10);"
Arrangement of Business
Announcement
5.20 pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Department for Work and Pensions (Lord McKenzie of Luton): My Lords, now that the Welfare Reform Bill has completed its Report stage, the Question for Short Debate becomes the last business before the House today. That means that the debate will be time-limited to 90 minutes, rather than 60 minutes, and that speakers, other than those opening it and winding it up, are limited to 11 minutes.
Immigration: Migrant Workers
Question for Short Debate
5.20 pm
Tabled By Lord Harries of Pentregarth
To ask Her Majesty's Government what is their assessment of the protection of vulnerable migrant workers' rights.
Lord Harries of Pentregarth: My Lords, I am very grateful for the opportunity to introduce this short debate. I do so as patron of the Ecumenical Council for Corporate Responsibility. Its recent report on migrant workers focuses particularly on the responsibility of companies, but its concerns go wider than this to include government regulation in this field, which is our concern this evening.
As we all know, when workers are vulnerable, it means that their work is insecure and low paid and they are at high risk of employment rights abuses. A typical example is a London cleaner who said, "I work for an agency. I'm 'self-employed'. They pay me £2.29 per room. I can't clean enough rooms to make the minimum wage. There is no sick pay or holiday pay, and I have to pay for my own cleaning materials and uniform out of my wages". Some 2 million people in this country are in vulnerable employment, and migrant workers form a very significant percentage of them. Most obtain work through one of the 17,000 employment agencies that form the largest and most fragmented agency sector in Europe and are worth some £25 billion. These agencies employ more than 1.25 million workers,
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Since the Morecambe Bay disaster in February 2003, when 23 Chinese cockle pickers were drowned, the Gangmasters Licensing Authority has been set up to prevent similar tragedies. Its remit covers the agricultural, forestry, horticultural, shellfish gathering, food processing and food packaging industries. There seems to be general agreement that in these sectors the GLA has had a significant impact. It licences about 1,230 gangmasters and has some 180,000 workers on its database. Abuses that were once quite common have been greatly reduced. There are still some further actions the GLA can take to ensure that its work is even more effective, but I shall not consider them in detail this evening.
However, the trade union Unite is concerned about two issues in particular. First, although the Government have signed up to the European directive, current drafts for implementation of that directive are still lacking in many areas. This means that unscrupulous employers can exploit loopholes. Secondly, it believes that there need to be much stronger linkages between the various employment rights enforcement agencies and greater resources and priority put on enforcement. In addition, there is still the major problem of unlicensed agencies in its sector; perhaps 25 to 40 per cent of gangmasters within its remit are at present unlicensed.
However, the setting up of the GLA has shown that in areas where abuses were once very prevalent, they have now been significantly reduced and curtailed. The implication of this is clear. Where there are abuses of vulnerable migrant workers in other areas, an effective means of stopping them exists. There are abuses in other areas of employment, particularly in the construction, hospitality and care sectors. Unscrupulous gangmasters, thwarted in their original areas of employment, have shifted their focus.
There is also the phenomenon of what have been labelled phoenix companies, whose licences have been withheld but which quickly emerge under another name to employ workers who are vulnerable. Many of those workers will be made to work for long hours on less than the minimum wage in unsatisfactory conditions, perhaps with exorbitant deductions for accommodation or transport.
There are many such examples. I shall briefly cite two, one of which is from the construction industry. "I was working 10 to 12 hours a day, seven days a week, as an apprentice plumber. I was being paid about £1.84 an hour. My employer said this was normal and I should be grateful. Then he attacked me because I asked for a copy of my terms and conditions". One agency charged a worker £250 for his clothes: a pair of trousers, two T-shirts and a sweatshirt. He called it his Versace gear.
When this issue has been raised before, both in this House and in the other place, the Government have said that the Employment Agency Standards Inspectorate has the responsibility for dealing with such abuses and is capable of doing so. I do not like to be critical, and I
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This is a technical field in which I have no competence, but I can report that those who do-relevant trade unions, Oxfam and others who have done the research-believe that the only effective remedy for the abuses in the construction, hospitality and care industries is to extend the remit of the GLA to cover them. The GLA has shown that it works effectively, it has the confidence of businesses and, as a bonus, it actually recovers significant amounts of VAT for the taxpayer.
As I say, there is significant exploitation in the construction industry. Estimates of the numbers of construction workers with unclear employment status vary from 200,000 to 1 million. I shall cite an example of the kind of abuse that has been uncovered. "I've done jobs in all parts of the country: Leicester, Leeds, Manchester. You're taken in the back of a van, and sometimes I don't even know where I've been when I get back. The vans are overcrowded, unsafe, uncomfortable. The gangmaster phones you and says 'Come to a certain place, a certain road junction at 5 am'. So you go and wait. Sometimes you work for a week, including Saturday and Sunday, and might get just £50. You don't get a wage slip; it's cash in hand. The transport to and from the jobs often eats up most of the money. Often you sleep on the site. The gangmasters have a way of hooking you in. You work for a week and they pay you, but next week they won't pay you. They ask you to come back next week and they pay you for this, but they still owe you one or two weeks' wages so you can't really leave them". There is also, of course, a great lack of health and safety among such vulnerable workers.
This kind of abuse is no less prevalent in the hospitality sector. Many hotels no longer employ people directly but prefer to go through an agency. One union organiser noted that the hotels must be aware of the exploitation because, "It's happening so frequently right under their noses in almost every hotel". One cleaner reports, "I'm cleaning rooms in a small hotel with 20 rooms. I got the job through an agency when I was still in Spain. The hotel pays me £25 for eight hours' work. They pay me cash in hand, with no wage slip. I know they should pay me the minimum wage, but what can I do? The agency won't defend me or help me with this". She is charged exorbitant prices for accommodation in a very crowded, unsafe house, and says, "It's a big agency on the internet supplying people to work in hotels all over London".
More research is needed in the care sector, but even there the research that has been done shows significant levels of abuse. We have to remember that we are an
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In 2008, the Home Affairs Select Committee noted that outside the GLA sectors, enforcement is at best patchy and at worst non-existent. The GLA, whatever improvements are still needed, has shown that it can make a big impact. Just a couple of days ago I talked to someone whose company employs hundreds of migrant workers. He told me that the existence of the GLA had in fact totally transformed his relationship with migrant workers and he had confidence in the authority. There is a clear case for extending its remit to include the construction, hospitality and care sectors. I very much look forward to hearing what the Government have to say and to learning something from the other speakers in tonight's debate.
5.30 pm
Lord Parekh: My Lords, I thank the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries of Pentregarth, for securing this debate and introducing it with the kind of conviction and commitment that we have come to expect of him. Since those days in the 1980s when there was a lot of privatisation and liberalisation, much work has been done by successive Governments to protect employees, but sadly not in relation to the growing number of vulnerable workers. They have fewer rights, and even those they have are not fully enforced.
Vulnerable migrant workers are subject to exploitation at various levels. Illegal deductions are made from their wages, they are given false assurances about the nature of their jobs before they come to this country, many do not enjoy sick or holiday pay, and sometimes they are falsely classified as self-employed so that the normal regulations do not apply. In some cases, particularly in the hospitality industry, piece-rates are paid with the result that almost 18 per cent of migrant workers in this sector are paid below the minimum wage. All these are disturbing facts, but unfortunately migrant workers are not in a position to complain or to secure redress. That is because they do not know their rights, their language skills are limited, there is anxiety among both legal and illegal migrant workers over their immigration status, and they do not have the financial resources to prosecute those involved in exploitative practices. A great deal therefore needs to be done.
Happily, the Gangmasters Licensing Authority has been doing interesting work in this area, but it has its limits. In the next few minutes, I want to suggest six or seven different ways in which the work of the GLA could be improved. First, it is striking that between 25 and 40 per cent of gangmasters are not licensed, so something needs to be done to make sure that they are properly examined and licensed, and that unlicensed gangmasters are not allowed to operate. Secondly, the GLA shares information with the UK Border Agency. As a result, the information it obtains has to do with how migrant workers have come to this country. Naturally, these workers are fearful of how the information will be used and are not in a position to trust the GLA. It is therefore important that the authority's task should have nothing to do with the immigration status of these workers.
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Thirdly, the GLA needs greater resources than it has at present to conduct better in-depth assessments of gangmasters, collect intelligence on the worst forms of exploitation, and make more frequent unannounced visits. Fourthly, it should have the power to impose heavier penalties than it does at the moment. I gather that the GLA has already made several proposals in this direction and I hope very much that the Government will look upon them favourably. Fifthly, as the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries, rightly pointed out, the remit of the GLA needs to extend into areas which at present are not covered. I have in mind the care, construction and hospitality sectors, especially construction and hospitality where many of these exploitative practices tend to occur. Sixthly, the trade unions should be more actively involved in inspecting workplaces, particularly those where vulnerable migrant workers are not in a position to complain and GLA inspections are not as probing as they could be. It is therefore important that trade unions should inspect workplaces and report cases of abuse.
Finally, we need to depend not only on the GLA-useful and important as it is-but to ensure that it is able to establish strong links with trade unions, voluntary organisations and migrant community organisations. All these organisations need to work together and co-ordinate their strategies in order to raise awareness of the rights that the migrant workers have and the abuses to which they are subject.
5.35 pm
The Earl of Sandwich: My Lords, I am sorry that the noble Lord, Lord Sheikh, is not in his place because he led a very interesting debate on this subject in which several of us spoke. My noble friend has made a strong case for improving the law. It is not easy to define vulnerability or the rights of vulnerable citizens, but when it comes to vulnerable migrants we must try harder.
During the passage of immigration legislation I have been primarily concerned with the rights of asylum seekers and, generally, I congratulate the Government on their migration policy. I was disappointed during the BBC's "Question Time" that the three main political parties did not stand up to the BNP representative and proclaim the success of migration. We need to claim not only that numbers are coming down or that historically this country has a good reputation, but that by accepting skilled migrants today we are enriching our society and supporting our economy. We need to hear this message more often from the Government.
If there is any increase in support for the BNP-which I doubt because the programme will have put a lot of people off-then it does not help the Government to compete with the policies of the BNP and water down their stand against racism and in favour of migration. As a former member of the Independent Asylum Commission, I am fully persuaded of the case for certain categories of migrants from outside the EU to be allowed into the country with temporary work permits. I am thinking especially of skilled Zimbabweans, some of whom have sought asylum here. But they are not really asylum seekers; they are waiting patiently for a genuine political reform and economic stability in their country. Has the Minister detected any change in heart towards these people?
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It seems that the backlog of so-called "illegal" immigrants and asylum seekers has defeated the Government. I have a lot of sympathy with the Strangers into Citizens campaign for an amnesty which would allow some of the more vulnerable irregular migrant workers to seek jobs legally and pay taxes like other citizens.
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