House of Lords Journal 241 (Session 2007-08)


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Thursday 12 June 2008

The House met at 11.00am.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Hayman, B. (Lord Speaker)

Adams of Craigielea, B.
Addington, L.
Adebowale, L.
Afshar, B.
Ahmed, L.
Alderdice, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Armstrong of Ilminster, L.
Arran, E.
Ashcroft, L.
Ashdown of Norton-sub-
Hamdon, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Astor, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Berkeley, L.
Best, L.
Bew, L.
Bhatia, L.
Bilimoria, L.
Billingham, B.
Bilston, L.
Blackwell, L.
Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury, B.
Boothroyd, B.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bragg, L.
Bramall, L.
Brett, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Broers, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Burnett, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butler-Sloss, B.
Caithness, E.
Cameron of Dillington, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carey of Clifton, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carter of Coles, L.
Cathcart, E.
Chidgey, L.
Chorley, L.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cobbold, L.
Colwyn, L.
Condon, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Cotter, L.
Cox, B.
Craigavon, V.
Crathorne, L.
Crisp, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Cunningham of Felling, L.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
De Mauley, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Dear, L.
Dearing, L.
Deech, B.
Denham, L.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
D’Souza, B.
Dubs, L.
Dundee, E.
Dykes, L.
Eames, L.
Eccles, V.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elder, L.
Elis-Thomas, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Elystan-Morgan, L.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Falkland, V.
Falkner of Margravine, B.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Ferrers, E.
Filkin, L.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Foster of Bishop Auckland, L.
Fowler, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Gale, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Geddes, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gilbert, L.
Glasgow, E.
Glenarthur, L.

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Glentoran, L.
Golding, B.
Goodhart, L.
Goodlad, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Greaves, L.
Greengross, B.
Griffiths of Burry Port, L.
Grocott, L.
Hameed, L.
Hamilton of Epsom, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hanningfield, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Hart of Chilton, L.
Haskel, L.
Haworth, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Henig, B.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Howard of Rising, L.
Howarth of Newport, L.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Hylton, L.
Inge, L.
Inglewood, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
James of Blackheath, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Ewelme, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jones of Cheltenham, L.
Jopling, L.
Jordan, L.
Judd, L.
Kerr of Kinlochard, L.
Kilclooney, L.
Kimball, L.
King of Bridgwater, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kinnock, L.
Kirkham, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Kirkwood of Kirkhope, L.
Laing of Dunphail, L.
Laird, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Lawson of Blaby, L.
Lee of Trafford, L.
Lewis of Newnham, L.
Lipsey, L.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Low of Dalston, L.
Lucas, L.
Ludford, B.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
Lyell of Markyate, L.
McAlpine of West Green, L.
Macaulay of Bragar, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
Mackay of Clashfern, L.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
McKenzie of Luton, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L.
Mar, C.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marland, L.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Mawhinney, L.
Mawson, L.
Maxton, L.
May of Oxford, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Mitchell, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montgomery of Alamein, V.
Montrose, D.
Moonie, L.
Morgan of Drefelin, B.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Morris of Bolton, B.
Morris of Handsworth, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Moynihan, L.
Murphy, B.
Naseby, L.
Neville-Jones, B.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicholson of Winterbourne, B.
Noakes, B.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
O’Cathain, B.
O’Neill of Clackmannan, L.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Ouseley, L.
Owen, L.
Oxburgh, L.
Palmer, L.
Parekh, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Parkinson, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Pendry, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Peston, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plumb, L.
Prosser, B.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Quin, B.
Quinton, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Ramsbotham, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennard, L.
Richard, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Roberts of Llandudno, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogan, L.
Rooker, L.
Roper, L.
Rosser, L.
Rosslyn, E.
Rowlands, L.
Royall of Blaisdon, B.
Russell-Johnston, L.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
St. Albans, Bp.
St John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandberg, L.
Sanderson of Bowden, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Selsdon, L.
Sewel, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Sheffield, Bp.
Sheikh, L.
Sheldon, L.
Shephard of Northwold, B.
Shrewsbury, E.
Simon, V.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Slim, V.
Slynn of Hadley, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Finsbury, L.
Snape, L.
Soley, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Stair, E.
Stewartby, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.

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Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Bolton, B.
Taylor of Holbeach, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Teverson, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomas of Winchester, B.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tonge, B.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trimble, L.
Trumpington, B.
Truscott, L.
Tugendhat, L.
Tunnicliffe, L.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Turner of Ecchinswell, L.
Tyler, L.
Uddin, B.
Ullswater, V.
Verma, B.
Waddington, L.
Wakeham, L.
Wall of New Barnet, B.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Warner, L.
Warsi, B.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Windlesham, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Young of Norwood Green, L.

Prayers were read by the Lord Bishop of St Albans.

1    Oath John David James Earl of Stair (Lord Oxenfoord) took and subscribed the oath.

Public Business

2    National Parks A question was asked by Lord Judd and answered by Lord Rooker.

3    Iran: People’s Mujaheddin Organisation A question was asked by Lord Waddington and answered by Lord Bassam of Brighton.

4    Courts: escort drivers A question was asked by Lord Ramsbotham and answered by Lord Hunt of Kings Heath.

5    Olympic Games 2012: Greenwich Park A question was asked by Lord James of Blackheath and answered by Lord Davies of Oldham.

6    Counter-Terrorism Bill A bill to confer further powers to gather and share information for counter-terrorism and other purposes; to make further provision about the detention and questioning of terrorist suspects and the prosecution and punishment of terrorist offences; to impose notification requirements on persons convicted of such offences; to amend the law relating to asset freezing proceedings under United Nations terrorism orders; to amend the law relating to inquests and inquiries; to amend the definition of “terrorism”; to amend the enactments relating to terrorist offences, control orders and the forfeiture of terrorist cash; to provide for recovering the costs of policing at certain gas facilities; to amend provisions about the appointment of special advocates in Northern Ireland; and for connected purposes was brought from the Commons. It was read a first time and ordered to be printed. (HL Bill 65)

7    Counter-Terrorism Bill The Explanatory Notes on the bill were ordered to be printed. (HL Bill 65-EN)

8    Business of the House The Lord President (Baroness Ashton of Upholland) moved that the debate on the motion in the name of Lord Thomas of Gresford set down for today shall be limited to 3 hours and that in the name of Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer to 2 hours. The motion was agreed to.

9    Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 (Investigative Powers of Prosecutors in England, Wales and Northern Ireland: Code of Practice) Order 2008

Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 (Disclosure of Information) Order 2008

Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 (Disclosure of Information by SOCA) Order 2008

Immigration and Nationality (Fees) (Amendment No. 2) Regulations 2008

Climate Change and Sustainable Energy Act 2006 (Sources of Energy and Technologies) Order 2008

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The Lord President (Baroness Ashton of Upholland) moved that the draft statutory instruments be referred to a Grand Committee en bloc. The motion was agreed to.

10    Youth justice (3-hour debate) Lord Thomas of Gresford moved for papers relating to the Centre for Crime and Justice Studies paper, Ten years of Labour’s youth justice reforms: an independent audit. After debate, the motion was withdrawn.

11    National security: Cabinet Office documents Baroness Morgan of Drefelin repeated a ministerial statement made in the House of Commons.

12    Data protection (2-hour debate) Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer moved for papers relating to the volume of personal data collected and retained by governmental agencies and private companies, and the protection of personal data and privacy. After debate, the motion was withdrawn.

13    Maximum Number of Judges Order 2008 Lord Tunnicliffe moved that the draft Order laid before the House on 13 May be approved. After debate, the motion was agreed to.

14    Armed Forces, Army, Air Force and Naval Discipline Acts (Continuation) Order 2008 Baroness Taylor of Bolton moved that the draft Order laid before the House on 21 May be approved. After debate, the motion was agreed to.

15    Armed Forces (Service Complaints) (Consequential Amendments) Order 2008 Baroness Taylor of Bolton moved that the draft Order laid before the House on 21 May be approved. The motion was agreed to.

16    Armed Forces (Alignment of Service Discipline Acts) Order 2008 Baroness Taylor of Bolton moved that the draft Order laid before the House on 21 May be approved. The motion was agreed to.

The House adjourned at 5.26pm until 10.00am on Friday 13 June.

Grand Committee Business

The Grand Committee met in the Moses Room at 2.00pm.

Energy Bill The Grand Committee considered the bill. The Committee adjourned after clause 33 was agreed to.

The Committee adjourned at 6.09pm.

Papers

All statutory instruments laid before the House are accompanied by an Explanatory Memorandum presented by command of Her Majesty, unless otherwise indicated.

Command Papers

The following papers were presented to the House by command of Her Majesty:

1    Radioactive Waste—Managing Radioactive Waste Safely: A framework for Implementing Geological Disposal: Government proposals.     (7386)

2    Employment—Joint Report of the Department for Work and Pensions and the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills on Work Skills.     (7415)

Negative Instruments

The following instruments were laid before the House:

1    (1)    Motor Vehicles (Approval) (Fees) (Amendment) Regulations 2008     (1443)

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      (2)    Goods Vehicles (Plating and Testing) (Amendment) Regulations 2008     (1460)

      (3)    Motor Vehicles (Tests) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2008     (1461)

      (4)    Motor Cycles Etc. (Single Vehicle Approval) (Fees) (Amendment) Regulations 2008     (1462)

laid under the Road Traffic Act 1988.

2    Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2008, laid under the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994.     (1444)

3    (1)    Public Service Vehicles (Conditions of Fitness, Equipment, Use and Certification) (Amendment) Regulations 2008     (1458)

      (2)    Community Bus (Amendment) Regulations 2008     (1465)

      (3)    Public Service Vehicles (Registration of Local Services) (Amendment) (England and Wales) Regulations 2008     (1470)

      (4)    Public Service Vehicles (Operators’ Licences) (Fees) (Amendment) Regulations 2008     (1473)

laid under the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981.

4    Public Service Vehicles Accessibility (Amendment) Regulations 2008, laid under the Disability Discrimination Act 1995.     (1459)

5    Goods Vehicles (Licensing of Operators) (Fees) (Amendment) Regulations 2008, laid under the Goods Vehicles (Licensing of Operators) Act 1995.     (1474)

6    Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General (Amendment) Regulations 2008, laid under the Traffic Management Act 2004.     (1513)

Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings

The following papers were laid before the House:

1    Strategic Plan for 2008-11 of the Legal Services Commission, laid under the Access to Justice Act 1999.

2    Report of HM Chief Inspector of Prisons and the Chief Inspector of Criminal Justice in Northern Ireland on an announced inspection of Ash House, Hydebank Wood Young Offender Centre, laid under the Justice (Northern Ireland) Act 2002.

3    Report of the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman on a summary of recent cases investigated due to complaints about NHS providers or practitioners, laid under the Health Service Commissioners Act 1993.

Judicial Business

1    Bowden (AP) (Appellant) v Poor Sisters of Nazareth (Respondents) and others (Scotland)

2    Whitton (AP) (Appellant) v Poor Sisters of Nazareth (Respondents) and others (Scotland)

(Consolidated Appeals)

Further to the Order of the House of Wednesday 21 May 2008 (42nd Report, Session 2007-08; [2008] UKHL 32) it was ordered that the appellants do pay or cause to be paid to the respondents their costs of the appeal to this House, the amount of such costs to be paid by the appellants to be modified to nil under section 18(2) of the Legal Aid (Scotland) Act 1986.

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3    Vicario (Petitioner) v Commissioner of Police for the Metropolis (Respondent) The petition of Melania Vicario praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee (lodged 21 May).

4    City Index Limited (Respondents) v Gawler and others (Appellants) and others It was ordered that the appellants be allowed to prosecute the appeal without giving the usual security for costs as required by Standing Order.

5    Sugar (Appellant) v British Broadcasting Corporation and another (Respondents) It was ordered that the appellant be allowed to prosecute the appeal without giving the usual security for costs as required by Standing Order.

6    Appeal Committee The 78th Report from the Appeal Committee was agreed to and the following Order was made:

In re C (AP) and another (AP) (Appellants) (Northern Ireland)

In re McE (Appellant) (Northern Ireland)

In re M (Appellant) (Northern Ireland)

That the petition of British Irish Rights Watch that they might intervene in the said appeals by way of written submissions be allowed.

7    Appeal Committee The 79th Report from the Appeal Committee was agreed to and the following Order was made:

Zalewska (AP) (Appellant) v Department for Social Development (Respondents) (Northern Ireland) That the petition of the Child Poverty Action Group and the Public Law Group that they might be heard or otherwise intervene in the said appeal be allowed.