| Previous Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting: I agree with the noble Lord, but there is nothing more I can say. A mistake has been made and I have apologised to the Committee on behalf of the Government. I have said
20 Mar 2007 : Column GC163
Lord Jones: I am grateful to my noble friend; he is very patient. If he cannot give the answer to the original questions, there was one other one. Can he say when the Wales Assembly Government were told that this is not likely to take place on 3 May? Does he have an urgent timetable on when to put things right?
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting: I do not have the date when the First Minister was informed of the defect in the legislation, but I shall write with the date on which he was informed and send a copy of that letter to the Committee. Meanwhile, I commend the Regulations to the Committee.
On Question, Motion agreed to.
Local Authorities (Mayoral Elections) (England and Wales) Regulations 2007
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting: I beg to move the Motion standing in my name on the Order Paper.
Moved, That the Grand Committee do report to the House that it has considered the Local Authorities (Mayoral Elections) (England and Wales) Regulations 2007.—(Lord Evans of Temple Guiting.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.
Police (Northern Ireland) Act 2000 (Renewal of Temporary Provisions) Order 2007
4.02 pm
Lord Rooker rose to move, That the Grand Committee do report to the House that it has considered the Police (Northern Ireland) Act 2000 (Renewal of Temporary Provisions) Order 2007.
The noble Lord said: As is well known, the purpose of the renewal order is to continue the temporary provisions—I emphasise that they are temporary—for the appointment of police officers and police support staff for a further three years with the aim of increasing Catholic composition in the Police Service of Northern Ireland to a level which is considered representative of that community. As many noble Lords are all too aware, the temporary provisions have been debated extensively both here and in another place on numerous occasions. Indeed, I anticipate an informed debate today following the Private Member’s Bill of the noble Lord, Lord Laird, on this issue a year ago. The noble Lord is still laid up—I do not know the details—and is unable to be with us. I am certain that he would have wished to be here today; all he is able to do at present is send in lots of Questions for Written Answer. I look forward to seeing him back here as soon as he is well enough.
For those less familiar with this issue, the Police (Northern Ireland) Act 2000 gives effect to the report of the Independent Commission on Policing for
20 Mar 2007 : Column GC164
The report also recommended that Catholic police officers from Northern Ireland serving in the police service elsewhere, particularly at more senior ranks, should be identified and encouraged to apply for positions in the Northern Ireland police. This arrangement is commonly known as “lateral entry”.
The Government are committed to the need for this legislation and the opportunity it offers in giving the Northern Ireland community a normal police service which is acceptable to all. We are firmly of the belief that these temporary provisions—I again emphasise temporary—are one of the most significant reasons why public confidence in policing is increasing across the community. However, we are also committed to removing the legislation once the religious imbalance is addressed. As clearly set out in the St Andrews agreement, the Government’s target is to increase Catholic composition in the Police Service of Northern Ireland to 30 per cent by March 2011.
Under the Police (Northern Ireland) Act 2000 the temporary provisions may be renewed by the Secretary of State, for up to and not exceeding three years, following consultation with the Northern Ireland Policing Board. The provisions were first renewed for a three-year period in March 2004 by the Police (Northern Ireland) Act 2000 (Renewal of Temporary Provisions) Order 2004. This renewal order seeks to keep the provisions in force for a further three years until March 2010. That is a year before the target date.
As recommended by the Patten report, the temporary provisions are an,
- “exceptional measure to try to provide a more representative police service within a reasonable timescale”.
I fully understand that many people remain opposed to the measures. However, the benefits that these provisions have had on increasing Catholic composition, as well as the positive impact on increasing community confidence in policing in general, justify the order in order to address this historical imbalance in the composition of the police in Northern Ireland. The order has also, as I shall go on to address in a moment, had the side effect of increasing the female composition of the police.
Since the Patten report’s recommendations and the implementation of the temporary provisions, the Catholic composition of police officers has almost trebled. From a mere 8.23 per cent in November 2001,
20 Mar 2007 : Column GC165
Patten highlighted the imbalance between the number of Catholics and Protestants in the composition of the police as “the most striking problem” and it is this that the temporary provisions are aimed at addressing. However, I also take this opportunity to acknowledge the importance of gender and ethnicity in the police service. In the Second Reading debate on the Private Member’s Bill of the noble Lord, Lord Laird, the noble Baroness, Lady Harris, articulated her concerns about the effect that the temporary provisions may be having on ethnic minority applications However, one effect of the 50:50 process in increasing community confidence about applying is that representation of female officers within the Police Service of Northern Ireland has increased from about 12 per cent in November 2001 to more than 21 per cent as of the middle of February 2007.
With regard to ethnic minorities, while Patten recommended that every effort should be made to recruit them, given the very small population involved he did not set a target. However, the police have undertaken a number of positive outreach measures aimed at recruiting people from ethnic minorities. The current PSNI ethnic minority composition is 0.3 per cent, which compares favourably with the overall level of the working-age ethnic minority population in Northern Ireland of 0.46 per cent. The translation of advertisements has seen a significant rise in applications from the Chinese community as well as from foreign nationals such as those in the Polish community. For example, in the most recent campaign there were 968 applications from Polish applicants half of whom, I should point out, were still living in Poland. However, I want to take this opportunity to put on the record any concerns that these applications are automatically disadvantaged by being placed in the non-Catholic category.
All applicants to the Police Service of Northern Ireland are required to complete an equality monitoring form in accordance with the Fair Employment and Treatment Order (Northern Ireland) 1998 and the Fair Employment (Monitoring) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 1999, irrespective of their country of origin. The information given by applicants on this form is used in making these appointments under the 50:50 policy. Since Poland is a predominantly Catholic country, Polish applicants to the Police Service of Northern Ireland are generally treated as Roman Catholic. However, each
20 Mar 2007 : Column GC166
When the temporary provisions issue was previously debated, it was done in a climate where elements of Northern Ireland’s community remained uncommitted, unsupportive and unco-operative with their police officers. Crimes, regardless of how violent, remained unsolved all because of a lack of assistance given to the local police. I have said it many times: if you are not for the police, you are for the rapists, the muggers and the robbers. It is as simple as that in my terms. Today, in this critical period, the climate is notably different and continues to change for the better. I have come armed with statistics to show that this is the case, given the number of people applying for posts, where they come from and so on. Recently, Sinn Fein’s decision to support policing, however much that might be criticised, shows that the word has gone over. Progress made by the Northern Ireland political parties in achieving a political settlement, which we hope will be a final and long-lasting one, provides an historic opportunity to support inclusive policing. With the aid of this order we fully anticipate that the Catholic composition of the Police Service of Northern Ireland will reach the Government’s target of 30 per cent by March 2011. It is at this point that we believe the temporary provisions will have achieved their aim in providing a representative and inclusive police service, and these provisions will no longer be necessary. They are temporary until the target of 30 per cent is achieved. Our estimate, and it can be fairly precise with the recruitment processes taking place, will be achieved by March 2011. At that point, this legislation will lapse. I beg to move.
Moved, That the Grand Committee do report to the House that it has considered the Police (Northern Ireland) Act 2000 (Renewal of Temporary Provisions) Order 2007.—(Lord Rooker.)
Lord Glentoran: I thank the Minister for his explanation of the legislation before us. My party has opposed 50:50 since day one. We never agreed with it and believed that there had to be a better way of tackling the problem of the overbalance of Protestant members of the RUC as it was then, and the PSNI as it is now. To put that into context, we have to remember the reasons why we reached that imbalance. It was because members of the nationalist/republican community were under threat of death if they were so courageous as to join the Northern Ireland police forces. Under those circumstances, it was probably understandable that not very many did so, except for those living in what might be called safe areas. Nevertheless, a number did and a number were killed. If the Government are determined to continue with this order, they are once again at risk of institutionalising sectarianism and religious discrimination in Northern Ireland, something that they, we and others have been trying to get away from for a very long time.
4.15 pm
The legislation is now no longer necessary. The make-up of the population of Northern Ireland has changed significantly in the past six years; the
20 Mar 2007 : Column GC167
The Government are telling us—and although we do not always believe them, we want to this time—that Sinn Fein has embraced the criminal justice laws and police services of Northern Ireland. If it has, why are its colleagues and constituents frightened to join the PSNI? Why do they need a law which is totally biased and discriminatory in their favour? It makes a mockery of the world we live in today.
I suggest that for their own reasons, the Government want to have their cake and eat it. Why, at this late stage, does this legislation need to be extended, not for a month or two to see whether the Assembly will sit, but for another three years? The Minister’s figures tell us that the target will not have been met until 2011, so we could well be facing another renewal in three more years. That has to be wrong, wrong, wrong.
I can see no logic in where the Government are going. I believe that they are institutionalising sectarianism and discrimination, both of which we are trying to get rid of. My party and I are seriously against the renewal of this law. We voted against it in the Commons, and I cannot tell the Minister what we shall do when it comes into the Chamber here.
Baroness Harris of Richmond: Yet again, I find myself on a hiding to nothing when dealing with Northern Ireland orders. I thank the Minister for introducing the order. We recognise that since the provisions were introduced in 2001, there has been a significant increase in the number of Catholics applying for the police. The Chief Constable’s annual report for 2005-06 states that on average, since the provisions were introduced, 36 per cent of applications come from Catholics, compared with a high of 22 per cent before Patten.
I am particularly pleased that 37 per cent of applicants are women. As the Minister has said, the number of those who go on to become officers has increased from 12 per cent in 2001 to over 21 per cent now. That is excellent progress.
We have heard anecdotal evidence in the past of ethnic minority groups feeling that the 50:50 quotas had discouraged them from applying for the police. Because of the way the legislation is worded, candidates from ethnic minorities are considered in the non-Catholic pool of applicants, which is still larger in number than the Catholic pool. Some of those from ethnic minority backgrounds are reluctant
20 Mar 2007 : Column GC168
Returning to the provisions of the order, which deals specifically with the recruitment of Catholic officers, we were pleased to see from the Chief Constable’s report that the police service is on target to increase the representation of officers from a Catholic background in the regular service to 30 per cent by 2011. As of 1 April 2006, 19.59 per cent of the regular force is from a Catholic background, compared with 8.28 per cent in November 2001. That is significant in any measure. Given the recent declaration of support for the police in Northern Ireland by Sinn Fein at the Ard Fheis, we hope to see the number of applications and recruits from those of a Catholic background increase even further in the three-year period that this order covers.
As we have heard, the Patten report envisaged that these special measures should be exactly what they are called in the legislation and in this order: temporary. The report envisaged a 10-year model to increase Catholic representation in the police to 30 per cent. This must be the last time we expect to renew these provisions for a three-year period. We firmly believe that as the time frame established in the order comes to an end, the Government must seriously investigate whether it is necessary to renew the provisions or whether the goal of a police service that is representative of the community should continue to develop naturally. We are putting this as a clear marker for the Government: if, in three years’ time, they propose to renew these provisions for yet another three years, we will not accept it. We accept the renewal of these provisions only up to the 10 years envisaged in the Patten report.
I have one further question. In his opening remarks, the Minister mentioned lateral entry. Does he know if any Catholic police officers from Northern Ireland, especially any senior officers, have applied to return to Northern Ireland to become officers in the PSNI? If he is not able to answer that today, I will obviously accept a letter from him. Even though we accept a great deal of the concern that has been expressed about the 50:50 recruitment process, we will support this order today.
Lord Kilclooney: I was interested in the comment of the noble Baroness that in three years’ time her party will be opposing this 50:50 arrangement. That assumes, of course, that there will not be devolution in Northern Ireland, and that policing matters will not by that time have been devolved to the Northern Ireland Assembly. That is my first question to the Minister. If devolution proceeds in Northern Ireland as planned, and if, eventually, there is a devolution of policing matters to Stormont, will the Government or the Executive, or whatever authority will be named, have the power to end that 50:50 arrangement prior to the date provided in this legislation?
The noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, rightly outlined the reasons why we had a low Roman Catholic membership of the policing institutions—the Royal
20 Mar 2007 : Column GC169
However, the Minister must recognise that the 50:50 rule has caused great offence to the Protestant majority in Northern Ireland. Young men who are Protestants and who are better qualified are being discriminated against because they happen to be Protestants; they cannot get a position in the PSNI, and that causes a lot of sectarian feelings within the community. This is sectarian legislation and it is causing offence. Therefore, the sooner it is removed from Northern Ireland, the better.
However, on the background, the Minister said that Sinn Fein had now accepted the PSNI. I find it difficult to accept that statement and I will be interested to see if other parties accept it by 26 March. The English press says that Sinn Fein supports the PSNI, without examining that in detail. My understanding is that if you look at the issue in detail, Sinn Fein accepts the PSNI in relation to ordinary day-to-day civilian problems—such as traffic issues and rape which happen in civil society—but did not make it clear that it would support the PSNI when terrorism was involved. That needs to be clarified in Northern Ireland. It was not sufficiently clear to satisfy someone such as me. It may have satisfied Dr Paisley, but I will be watching this matter closely before 26 March to see whether Sinn Fein is clear in its support for the PSNI and all policing matters in Northern Ireland—civilian and terrorist.
There is one other problem in Northern Ireland and we must not run away from it. We still have the Real IRA, which, in my opinion, is an increasing threat in Northern Ireland society. It would be interesting to hear whether the Minister thinks that the Real IRA is in decline or whether it is increasing its presence and potential for terrorism in Northern Ireland. The PSNI has to operate in that context of modern policing, which, sadly, might mean that Roman Catholic members of the PSNI will still be intimidated by breakaway groups from the Provisional IRA.
Mention has been made of the Garda Siochana. Paragraph 7 of the Explanatory Memorandum goes further, saying that there will be,
from the Garda Siochana—not just the existing arrangements, but a “wider degree”. Can the Minister
20 Mar 2007 : Column GC170
4.30 pm
I am glad to hear the clarification that Polish applicants will be accepted in accordance with whatever religion they state on their application forms. That means that in most cases, if they are telling the truth, they are Roman Catholics, although there is quite a strong evangelical Protestant Church in some parts of Poland. I hope that they will not be discriminated against because they happen to be Polish rather than being born in Northern Ireland and that as European Union citizens they will get the same consideration as local applicants.
On 50:50 recruitment, it must be remembered that it is not 50 per cent Protestant and 50 per cent Roman Catholic, but 50 per cent Roman Catholic and probably something towards 40 per cent Protestant. That is because the other 50 per cent is not just made up of Protestants but of people of no religion or of other religions. For that reason it is a further means of discrimination against the Protestant majority in Northern Ireland.
The Explanatory Memorandum mentions the St Andrews agreement and the agreement to try and achieve a 30 per cent Roman Catholic composition by 2010-11. Was that agreed by all the parties at St Andrews, by just the two Governments, or did both Sinn Fein and the DUP agree to this target of 30 per cent? That needs to be clarified.
| Next Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |