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Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, I suppose that seven years is a short period of government, when taken in the longer view. This is obviously a very delicate exercise and an important constitutional issue. It is only right that full and proper consultation takes place on this matter before any Bill is considered fit for introduction.

Baroness Wilcox: My Lords, this House is full of surprises. I never thought that I would stand here in common cause with the noble Lord, Lord Sheldon, but I do. We know from top-up fees that the party opposite does not always mean what it says in its manifesto. Does the omission of a Civil Service Bill in the Queen's Speech mean that the Government no longer wish to safeguard the independence of what was once the best civil service in the world?

Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, I am not aware that it is not still the best civil service in the world. Our Government have taken very important steps during the past eight years to ensure that its independence goes without question. We will continue to stick to that fundamental and important principle.

Lord Jenkin of Roding: My Lords—

Lord Maclennan of Rogart: My Lords, will the Minister give any indication of the fate of Sir Patrick Brown's report on civil servants passing into business positions after they leave the Civil Service? In view of the Prime Minister's expressed interest in promoting a cross-flow between business and the Civil Service, can we have some indication of what the Government think of the adequacy of the current arrangements, which, in many countries, to protect the public from any impropriety, are regularised by statute?

Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, as to the noble Lord's first question, I think that the monitoring arrangements for those who are in the employ of the Government and former Ministers work extremely well. Regular reports are published on that. Those who have served in public office receive careful advice when they move from the public into the private sector.

The Government have paid very careful attention to the issues that the noble Lord raised in his second question. It is for that reason that we continue to keep carefully under review codes of conduct and advice
 
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given, and that we ensure that all Ministers understand the rules and conduct themselves in an entirely appropriate way so far as the public service is concerned.

Lord Lester of Herne Hill: My Lords—

Lord Jenkin of Roding: My Lords, will the Minister comment on a deeply offensive episode following the general election, when hundreds of Treasury civil servants were lined up in serried ranks to cheer the Chancellor of the Exchequer back into the Treasury? Will not many former permanent secretaries of the Treasury have turned in their grave at a demonstration of partiality from a civil service, which never, ever ought to happen?

Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, I am sure that many people cheer the fact that our Government were returned for a third term, and I am sure that many civil servants felt very much like cheering the best Chancellor that this country has had in more than 100 years.

Lord Jenkin of Roding: My Lords, will the Minister not answer my question?

Noble Lords: Oh!

Lord Barnett: My Lords, if my noble friend considers seven years to be a short time, what does he consider to be a long time? When does he think that my noble friend Lord Sheldon will be able to get an answer to his Question?

Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Sheldon, has raised Questions relating to a Civil Service Bill for as long as I have had the responsibility for answering from these Benches, and no doubt he will continue to do so. It is quite right that he does, because we in government believe in ensuring that the highest possible standards exist in public life. We have pursued a course of careful consultation on this issue because we believe that it is important.

Lord Lester of Herne Hill: My Lords—

Lord Peyton of Yeovil: My Lords—

Lord Rooker: My Lords, it is the Liberal Democrats' turn.

Lord Lester of Herne Hill: My Lords—

Lord Armstrong of Ilminster: My Lords, I recognise that if ever the Civil Service Bill in the consultation paper were to come before Parliament, it would be likely to be amended and, I dare say, improved. However, would the Minister be prepared to help us to contain our impatience by assuring us that while we wait for the Bill to appear, the Government will at least observe the principles and provisions contained in the Bill?

Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, I believe that this Government have a good record on this and that
 
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we have been extremely attentive to those issues. I must say that when the party opposite was in government, they had 18 years of opportunity to introduce a Civil Service Bill. They obviously took a self-denying ordinance there and failed to do so. We have given the matter very careful consideration; there is a proper period of consultation, which we are going through. All the issues to which the noble Lord makes a general reference are the ones that we believe that we should focus on.

Lord Peyton of Yeovil: My Lords—

Lord Lester of Herne Hill: My Lords—

Lord Rooker: My Lords, it is the turn of the Lib Dems, if there is any fairness in this Question Time.

Lord Lester of Herne Hill: My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord. Is the Minister aware that the commitment to have such a Bill was made in the Cook-Maclennan agreement in 1994 and in the Labour Party manifesto of 1997? Is he also aware that there is a high-powered Mexican delegation meeting the Cabinet Secretary this afternoon and listening to these proceedings, who told me this morning that they have had legislation for two years that stops special advisers giving instructions to civil servants? Might the Minister consider going to Mexico?

Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, I have a horrible feeling that there are a few Members of your Lordships' House who might like to see me going to Mexico. In fact, I might actually quite enjoy the experience.

I was aware of the first two points that the noble Lord made, but I was unaware of his third point. No doubt the Mexicans are seeking to learn from best practice in this country.

Lord Peyton of Yeovil: My Lords—

Lord Rooker: My Lords, with respect, we have to move on to the next Question.

e-Government Unit

11.22 am

Lord Harris of Haringey asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether the time spent preparing the e-Government Unit's document, Tomatoes are not the only fruit: a rough guide to taxonomies, thesauri, ontologies and the like, represents value for money.

Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, yes, the document was published in 2002 by the Office of the e-Envoy, at the request of technical users in
 
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government who were new to the subject. It was produced in-house at an estimated cost of less than £100.

Lord Harris of Haringey: My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that information. I ask him to congratulate the civil servants concerned on the diligence and speed with which they must have produced 12,000 words and four charts on the subject of Tomatoes are not the only fruit, containing such gems of information as:

"How long has it been for many of us since the primary meaning of the word 'mouse' has been 'a small furry mammal that frightens elephants?'",

or the information that carrots can be either salad or root vegetables. That will no doubt come in very helpful in promoting e-government.

Can we also congratulate the authors of the Guide to Meta-Tagging with the Integrated Public Sector Vocabulary, which gives another eight pages of valuable advice and information? It includes the information that the phrase "common agricultural policy" may appear under the phrase "European Union" or under "Farming" but will mean the same under both.

Given the diligence of the civil servants in the unit, can the Minister assure the House that the same energy and effectiveness is being applied to delivering information security throughout the public sector? Are such arrangements susceptible, or likely to be susceptible, to external challenge?

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