House of Lords Journal 238 (Session 2004-05)


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Tuesday 14th December 2004

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Falconer of Thoroton, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Ackner, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Allen of Abbeydale, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alliance, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Andrews, B.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Arran, E.

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Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Bhatia, L.
Bhattacharyya, L.
Biffen, L.
Birt, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blatch, B.
Bledisloe, V.
Blood, B.
Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury, B.
Boothroyd, B.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bragg, L.
Bramall, L.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Brown of Eaton-under-
Heywood, L.
Burlison, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butler of Brockwell, L.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Cameron of Dillington, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carlile of Berriew, L.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carrington, L.
Carswell, L.
Carter, L.
Carter of Coles, L.
Chalker of Wallasey, B.
Chan, L.
Chandos, V.
Chapman, B.
Chester, Bp.
Chorley, L.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cobbold, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Courtown, E.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Crathorne, L.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Croham, L.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Dahrendorf, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Dearing, L.
Denham, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
D’Souza, B.
Dubs, L.
Dundee, E.
Dykes, L.
Eames, L.
Eatwell, L.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elder, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Emerton, B.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Ezra, L.
Falkland, V.
Falkner of Margravine, B.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Fearn, L.
Feldman, L.
Ferrers, E.
Filkin, L.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Fowler, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freeman, L.
Freyberg, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Garden, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Gavron, L.
Geddes, L.
Giddens, L.
Gilbert, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Golding, B.
Goldsmith, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goschen, V.
Gould of Brookwood, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Grabiner, L.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grantchester, L.
Greaves, L.
Greengross, B.
Greenway, L.
Gregson, L.
Grenfell, L.
Griffiths, L.
Griffiths of Burry Port, L.
Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Grocott, L.
Guthrie of Craigiebank, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hanningfield, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of High Cross, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Hart of Chilton, L.
Haskel, L.
Haskins, L.
Hattersley, L.
Haworth, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Henig, B.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Hope of Craighead, L.
Howard of Rising, L.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Hylton, L.
Inge, L.
Inglewood, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
Jacobs, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jones, L.
Jopling, L.
Judd, L.
Kimball, L.
King of Bridgwater, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kingsdown, L.

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Kingsland, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Laidlaw, L.
Laing of Dunphail, L.
Laird, L.
Laming, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Lawson of Blaby, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Leitch, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Lewis of Newnham, L.
Lindsay, E.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Lipsey, L.
Liverpool, E.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Lloyd of Berwick, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McAlpine of West Green, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
Mackay of Clashfern, L.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
McKenzie of Luton, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Maxton, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Methuen, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Mishcon, L.
Mitchell, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montrose, D.
Moore of Wolvercote, L.
Morgan, L.
Morgan of Drefelin, B.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Morris of Bolton, B.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Murphy, B.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Naseby, L.
Newby, L.
Nicholls of Birkenhead, L.
Noakes, B.
Northbourne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Ouseley, L.
Palmer, L.
Parekh, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Parkinson, L.
Patel, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Patten, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Peel, E.
Pendry, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plumb, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Powell of Bayswater, L.
Prashar, B.
Prosser, B.
Prys-Davies, L.
Quirk, L.
Radice, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.
Renton, L.
Richard, L.
Rix, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Roberts of Llandudno, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogan, L.
Roll of Ipsden, L.
Rooker, L.
Roper, L.
Rosser, L.
Rosslyn, E.
Rotherwick, L.
Rowlands, L.
Royall of Blaisdon, B.
Russell-Johnston, L.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sanderson of Bowden, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Scott of Foscote, L.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Selsdon, L.
Sewel, L.
Sharman, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Sheldon, L.
Sheppard of Didgemere, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Slim, V.
Slynn of Hadley, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Southwark, Bp.
Stallard, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Steinberg, L.
Stern, B.
Stevens of Ludgate, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L.
Sutherland of Houndwood, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Tanlaw, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Tebbit, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Swynnerton, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trenchard, V.
Triesman, L.
Trumpington, B.
Truscott, L.
Tunnicliffe, L.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Ullswater, V.
Vallance of Tummel, L.
Varley, L.
Waddington, L.

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Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Wall of New Barnet, B.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Warner, L.
Warnock, B.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilcox, B.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Wilson of Tillyorn, L.
Windlesham, L.
Woolf, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Worcester, Bp.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Young of Norwood Green, L.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Chester.

Judicial Business

1.Office of the King’s Prosecutor, Brussels (Respondents) v. Armas (Appellant) and others (Criminal Appeal from Her Majesty’s High Court of Justice)—The appeal of Eddison Rodrigo Cando Armas was presented and ordered to be prosecuted subject to the procedures applicable thereto.
2.R (on the application of Kent Pharmaceuticals Limited) (Petitioners) v. Director of the Serious Fraud Office (Respondent)—The petition of Kent Pharmaceuticals Limited praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee (lodged 8th December).
3.Roberts (FC) (Appellant) v. Parole Board (Respondents)—The petition of the Secretary of State for the Home Department praying for leave to intervene in the said appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee.
4.Horton (Appellant) v. Sadler and others (Respondents)—The petition of the appellant praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 25th January 2005 (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed.
5.Regina v. Walls (Respondent) (On Appeal from the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division))—The petition of the appellants was presented praying that the appeal be withdrawn on the terms agreed between the parties (the agents for the respondent consenting thereto); and it was ordered as prayed.
6.Appeal Committee—The 9th Report from the Appeal Committee was agreed to and the following Orders were made—

CIBC Mellon Trust Company (acting in its capacity as Trustee of the Chrysler Canada Limited’s Benefits Plan, the Chrysler Canada Limited Master Trust Fund, the Chrysler Canada Limited Non-Canadian Master Trust and the Holmes Foundry Division Master Trust Fund and the Chrysler Canada Limited Supplemental Unemployment Benefit Plans) and others (Respondents) v. Stolzenberg and others and others (Petitioners)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondents be at liberty to apply for their costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d); and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Corbett (Petitioner) v. Bond Pearce (a firm) (Respondents)—That the respondents be invited to lodge objections by 5th January 2005.

Papers

7.Command Papers—The following papers were presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Law Commission—Report from the Law Commission: Towards a Compulsory Purchase Code: (2) Procedure, Final Report;
 (6406)
2.Departmental Performance—Performance Report for the—
(i)Foreign and Commonwealth Office;(6409)
(ii)Department of Health;(6417)
3.Boundary Commission for Scotland—Fifth Periodical Report of the Boundary Commission for Scotland.
 (6427)
8.Affirmative Instrument—The following instrument was laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table:

Draft Parliamentary Constituencies (Scotland) Order 2005, laid under the Parliamentary Constituencies Act 1986, together with an Explanatory Memorandum.

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9.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Fire and Rescue Services (National Framework) (England) Order 2004, laid under the Fire and Rescue Services Act 2004;
 (3217)
2.Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) (Amendment) (No. 5) Regulations 2004, laid under the European Communities Act 1972;
 (3298)
3.Road Traffic (Permitted Parking Area and Special Parking Area) (County of Hertfordshire) (District of East Hertfordshire) Order 2004, laid under the Road Traffic Act 1991;
 (3310)
4.Non-Domestic Rating (Small Business Rate Relief) (England) Order 2004, laid under the Local Government Finance Act 1988.
 (3315)
10.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Amendment to the Rates of Pay, Allowances and Pensions of the Royal Air Force, laid under the Air Force (Constitution) Act 1917;
2.Twelfth Report of the Office of the Oversight Commissioner for Northern Ireland, laid under the Police (Northern Ireland) Act 2000.

Select Committee Reports

11.Merits of Statutory Instruments—The following report from the Select Committee was made and ordered to be printed:

2nd Report, on the following negative instrument:

Education (School Performance Targets) (England) Regulations 2004. (HL Paper 17)

12.Statutory Instruments—The 3rd Report from the Joint Committee was made on certain statutory instruments, including the following affirmative instruments:

Draft Information and Consultation of Employees Regulations 2004;

Draft Local Authorities’ Plans and Strategies (Disapplication) (England) Order 2005;

Draft Representation of the People (Variation of Limits of Candidates’ Election Expenses) (City of London) Order 2005;

it was ordered that the Report be printed. (HL Paper 18)

Public Business

13.Agriculture (Northern Ireland) Order 2004—It was moved by the Lord President (Baroness Amos) that the draft Order laid before the House on 24th November be approved; the motion was agreed to.
14.Financial Provisions (Northern Ireland) Order 2004—It was moved by the Lord President (Baroness Amos) that the draft Order laid before the House on 25th November be approved; the motion was agreed to.
15.Constitutional Reform Bill [HL]—The bill was further considered on report; amendments were moved and (by leave of the House) withdrawn; amendments were agreed to; further consideration on report was adjourned.
16.Consolidated Fund Bill—A bill to authorise the use of resources for the service of the years ending with 31st March 2005 and 31st March 2006 and to apply certain sums out of the Consolidated Fund to the service of the years ending with 31st March 2005 and 31st March 2006 was brought from the Commons endorsed with the certificate of the Speaker that the bill is a money bill and read a first time.
17.Criminal Justice Act 2003 (Categories of Offences) Order 2004—It was moved by the Baroness Scotland of Asthal that the draft Order laid before the House on 15th November be approved; then it was moved by the Lord Thomas of Gresford, as an amendment thereto, at end to insert “but that this House calls on Her Majesty’s Government to reconsider the policy furthered by the Order which undermines the presumption of innocence, will lead to wrongful convictions, and will thereby destroy public confidence in the criminal justice system”; after debate, the amendment was disagreed to (see division list); then the original motion was agreed to.

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18.Constitutional Reform Bill [HL]—The bill was further considered on report; amendments were agreed to; amendments were moved and (by leave of the House) withdrawn; it was ordered that the bill be printed as amended. (HL Bill 12)

The House was adjourned at twelve minutes past eleven o’clock
till tomorrow, half-past two o’clock.


DIVISION

CRIMINAL JUSTICE ACT 2003 (CATEGORIES OF OFFENCES) ORDER 2004

It was moved by the Lord Thomas of Gresford, as an amendment to the motion in the name of the Baroness Scotland of Asthal, at end to insert “but that this House calls on Her Majesty’s Government to reconsider the policy furthered by the Order which undermines the presumption of innocence, will lead to wrongful convictions, and will thereby destroy public confidence in the criminal justice system”; which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided:

Contents..............42

Not-Contents..............90

CONTENTS

Ackner, L.
Alliance, L.
Ampthill, L.
Barker, B.
Carlile of Berriew, L.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Chester, Bp.
Craig of Radley, L.
Dholakia, L. [Teller]
Ezra, L.
Falkland, V.
Falkner of Margravine, B.
Garden, L.
Goodhart, L.
Hamwee, B.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Hooson, L.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Lawson of Blaby, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Mackay of Clashfern, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Northover, B.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L. [Teller]
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Tordoff, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Worcester, Bp.

NOT-CONTENTS

Amos, B. (Lord President)
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Blackstone, B.
Borrie, L.
Brett, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Burlison, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carter, L.
Carter of Coles, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Crawley, B.
David, B.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Dixon, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L. (Lord Chancellor)
Farrington of Ribbleton, B. [Teller]
Filkin, L.
Gale, B.
Gilbert, L.
Golding, B.
Goldsmith, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Harris of Haringey, L.
Hart of Chilton, L.
Haworth, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jones, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Leitch, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
McKenzie of Luton, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Maxton, L.
Morgan of Drefelin, B.
Parekh, L.
Pendry, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Rea, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rooker, L.
Rosser, L.
Rowlands, L.
Royall of Blaisdon, B.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Simon, V.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Tomlinson, L.
Triesman, L.
Truscott, L.
Tunnicliffe, L.
Varley, L.
Wall of New Barnet, B.
Warner, L.
Whitaker, B.
Wilkins, B.
Young of Norwood Green, L.