House of Lords Journal 237 (Session 2003-04)


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Tuesday 10th February 2004

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Falconer of Thoroton, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Alexander of Weedon, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Andrews, B.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Armstrong of Ilminster, L.
Arran, E.
Ashdown of Norton-sub-
Hamdon, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Bagri, L.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Bhatia, L.
Biffen, L.
Billingham, B.
Blackwell, L.
Blaker, L.
Boothroyd, B.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Boyce, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bragg, L.
Bramall, L.
Brennan, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brightman, L.
Brigstocke, B.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brookeborough, V.
Brookman, L.

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Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butler of Brockwell, L.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carey of Clifton, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carter, L.
Chadlington, L.
Chalfont, L.
Chan, L.
Chandos, V.
Chelmsford, Bp.
Chorley, L.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cobbold, L.
Cockfield, L.
Coe, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Condon, L.
Cooke of Islandreagh, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Courtown, E.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Crathorne, L.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Cuckney, L.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dearing, L.
Deedes, L.
Denham, L.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dubs, L.
Dundee, E.
Eatwell, L.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Elder, L.
Elles, B.
Elton, L.
Emerton, B.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Ezra, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Fearn, L.
Feldman, L.
Filkin, L.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Fowler, L.
Freeman, L.
Gale, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Gavron, L.
Gilmour of Craigmillar, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goldsmith, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goschen, V.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grantchester, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greengross, B.
Greenway, L.
Gregson, L.
Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Grocott, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hannay of Chiswick, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of High Cross, L.
Harris of Peckham, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Haskel, L.
Haskins, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Home, E.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Hope of Craighead, L.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hussey of North Bradley, L.
Inge, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
James of Holland Park, B.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jauncey of Tullichettle, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeger, B.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Joffe, L.
Jones, L.
Jopling, L.
Jordan, L.
Kimball, L.
King of Bridgwater, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Laird, L.
Laming, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Lindsay, E.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Lipsey, L.
Liverpool, E.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McAlpine of West Green, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
Mackay of Clashfern, L.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
MacLaurin of Knebworth, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L.
Manchester, Bp.
Mar, C.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Michie of Gallanach, B.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Mishcon, L.
Mitchell, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montrose, D.
Moore of Wolvercote, L.
Moran, L.
Morgan, L.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moynihan, L.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.

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Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Naseby, L.
Newby, L.
Newcastle, Bp.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Noakes, B.
Norfolk, D.
Northbourne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Orme, L.
Ouseley, L.
Palmer, L.
Parekh, L.
Patel, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Patten, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Pendry, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Peston, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plumb, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Portsmouth, Bp.
Prior, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Quinton, L.
Quirk, L.
Radice, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rawlinson of Ewell, L.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.
Rennard, L.
Richardson of Calow, B.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogan, L.
Roll of Ipsden, L.
Rooker, L.
Roper, L.
Rosslyn, E.
Rotherwick, L.
Russell-Johnston, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandberg, L.
Sanderson of Bowden, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Selsdon, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Sheldon, L.
Shrewsbury, E.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Southwark, Bp.
Southwell, Bp.
Stallard, L.
Stern, B.
Stewartby, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L.
Sutherland of Houndwood, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Tanlaw, L.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Tebbit, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Tenby, V.
Thatcher, B.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Tombs, L.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Triesman, L.
Trumpington, B.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Ullswater, V.
Vincent of Coleshill, L.
Vinson, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Walker of Worcester, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.
Warner, L.
Warnock, B.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilcox, B.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Willoughby de Broke, L.
Winchester, Bp.
Windlesham, L.
Winston, L.
Wolfson, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Worcester, Bp.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Worcester.

Judicial Business

1.Greenalls Management Limited (Respondents) v. Her Majesty’s Commissioners of Customs and Excise (Appellants)—The petition of the appellants praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 9th March next (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed.
2.Regina v. Ashworth Hospital Authority (now Mersey Care National Health Service Trust) (Appellants) ex parte Munjaz (FC) (Respondent)—It was ordered that the appellants be allowed to prosecute the appeal without giving the usual security for costs as required by Standing Order.

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Papers

3.Command Papers—The following papers were presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Transport—Government Response to the Report of the House of Commons Transport Committee on Overcrowding on Public Transport;
 (6072)
2.Finance—Treasury Minutes on the Forty Seventh, Forty Eighth and Forty Ninth Reports from the Committee of Public Accounts.
 (6110)
4.Affirmative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Draft Rates (Amendment) (Northern Ireland) Order 2004, laid under the Northern Ireland Act 2000, together with an Explanatory Memorandum;
2.Draft Renewables Obligation (Amendment) Order 2004, laid under the Electricity Act 1989, together with an Explanatory Memorandum.
5.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
(i)Education (National Curriculum) (Attainment Targets and Programmes of Study in Modern Foreign Languages in respect of the Third Key Stage) (England) Order 2004—(256)
(ii)Education (National Curriculum) (Modern Foreign Languages) (England) Order 2004—(260)
(iii)Education (National Curriculum) (Attainment Targets and Programmes of Study in Design and Technology in respect of the First, Second and Third Key Stages) (England) Order 2004—(261)
(iv)Education (National Curriculum) (Exceptions at Key Stage 4) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2004—(264)
 laid under the Education act 2002.
6.Paper not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following paper was laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Census 2001: Report on the Welsh Language, laid under the Census Act 1920;
2.Report for 2003 on Exemptions Granted under the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 for Fishing Vessels Acting as Guard Ships, laid under that Act.

Select Committee Report

7.Statutory Instruments—The 8th Report from the Joint Committee was made on certain statutory instruments, including the following affirmative instruments:

Draft Children (Leaving Care) Social Security Benefits (Scotland) Regulations 2004;

Draft European Parliamentary Elections Regulations 2004;

Draft Independent Police Complaints Commission (Investigatory Powers) Order 2004;

Draft Local Authorities (Conduct of Referendums) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2004;

Draft Local Authorities (Mayoral Elections) (England and Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2004;

Draft Representation of the People (Combination of Polls) (England and Wales) Regulations 2004;

Draft Social Security Benefits Up-rating Order 2004;

Draft Social Security (Contributions) (Re-rating and National Insurance Funds Payments) Order 2004;

Mink Keeping (Prohibition) (England) Order 2004;

it was ordered that the Report be printed. (HL Paper 37)

Public Business

8.Justice (Northern Ireland) Bill [HL]—The bill was read a third time; amendments were moved and (by leave of the House) withdrawn; amendments were disagreed to (see division lists 1 and 2); a privilege amendment was agreed to; then the bill was passed and sent to the Commons.

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9.Gender Recognition Bill [HL]—The bill was read a third time; amendments were agreed to; amendments were disagreed to (see division lists 3 and 4); a privilege amendment was agreed to; then it was moved by the Lord Filkin, on behalf of the Lord Falconer of Thoroton, that the bill do now pass; after debate, the motion was agreed to (see division list 5) and the bill was sent to the Commons.

The House was adjourned at twenty-three minutes before seven o’clock
till tomorrow, half-past two o’clock.


DIVISIONS

JUSTICE (NORTHERN IRELAND) BILL [HL]

Division No. 1

It was moved by the Lord Glentoran, in Clause 4, page 3, line 8, at end to insert:

“( )Any specification by the Prime Minister under subsection (3)(a) in relation to recommendations from the First and Deputy First Minister must specify that the recommendation shall contain no fewer than three candidates.”;

which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided:

Contents..............106

Not-Contents..............156

CONTENTS

Ackner, L.
Alexander of Weedon, L.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Blaker, L.
Bowness, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brookeborough, V.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Buscombe, B.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Cockfield, L.
Cooke of Islandreagh, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L. [Teller]
Courtown, E.
Cox, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Cuckney, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Deedes, L.
Denham, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Dundee, E.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Gilmour of Craigmillar, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goschen, V.
Gray of Contin, L.
Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Henley, L.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Hooper, B.
Howe, E.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Hussey of North Bradley, L.
James of Holland Park, B.
Jopling, L.
King of Bridgwater, L.
Kingsland, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Laird, L.
Liverpool, E.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McAlpine of West Green, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
Mackay of Clashfern, L.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L.
Marlesford, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montrose, D.
Moore of Wolvercote, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Naseby, L.
Northesk, E.
O’Cathain, B.
Patten, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Rawlinson of Ewell, L.
Reay, L.
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rogan, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Sanderson of Bowden, L.
Seccombe, B. [Teller]
Selsdon, L.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Thatcher, B.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Vinson, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Warnock, B.
Wilcox, B.
Willoughby de Broke, L.
Windlesham, L.
Wolfson, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Amos, B. (Lord President)
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Avebury, L.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.

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Boothroyd, B.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carey of Clifton, L.
Carter, L.
Chan, L.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cobbold, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Condon, L.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Crawley, B.
David, B.
Davies of Oldham, L. [Teller]
Dholakia, L.
Dixon, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Ezra, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L. (Lord Chancellor)
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Fearn, L.
Filkin, L.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Gavron, L.
Goldsmith, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Greengross, B.
Gregson, L.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Haskel, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Hooson, L.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
Jones, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Lipsey, L.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marsh, L.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Michie of Gallanach, B.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Mitchell, L.
Morgan, L.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Northover, B.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
Orme, L.
Parekh, L.
Patel, L.
Pendry, L.
Peston, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Radice, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rea, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rennard, L.
Richardson of Calow, B.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rooker, L.
Roper, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Sheldon, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Tenby, V.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tordoff, L.
Triesman, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.
Warner, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Weatherill, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Winston, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.

Division No. 2

It was moved by the Lord Maginnis of Drumglass to leave out Clause 5; which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided:

Contents..............81

Not-Contents..............170

CONTENTS

Ackner, L.
Blaker, L.
Bowness, L.
Brigstocke, B.
Brookeborough, V. [Teller]
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Caithness, E.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Chadlington, L.
Cockfield, L.
Coe, L.
Cooke of Islandreagh, L. [Teller]
Courtown, E.
Cox, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Cuckney, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Deedes, L.
Denham, L.
Dundee, E.
Flather, B.
Fowler, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Goschen, V.
Gray of Contin, L.
Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Harris of Peckham, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Henley, L.
Home, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Jellicoe, E.
Jopling, L.
Kimball, L.
King of Bridgwater, L.

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Knight of Collingtree, B.
Laird, L.
Liverpool, E.
Lyell, L.
McAlpine of West Green, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
Mackay of Clashfern, L.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L.
Marlesford, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monson, L.
Montrose, D.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Naseby, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Palmer, L.
Patten, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plumb, L.
Prior, L.
Rawlinson of Ewell, L.
Reay, L.
Rogan, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sanderson of Bowden, L.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Tebbit, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Vinson, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Walker of Worcester, L.
Willoughby de Broke, L.
Wolfson, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Amos, B. (Lord President)
Ampthill, L.
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Bach, L.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Bhatia, L.
Billingham, B.
Boothroyd, B.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carter, L.
Chandos, V.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cobbold, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Craig of Radley, L.
Crawley, B.
David, B.
Davies of Oldham, L. [Teller]
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dubs, L.
Eatwell, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Ezra, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Fearn, L.
Filkin, L.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Gavron, L.
Goldsmith, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Greengross, B.
Gregson, L.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Haskel, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Hooson, L.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
Jeger, B.
Jones, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Lipsey, L.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Michie of Gallanach, B.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Mitchell, L.
Morgan, L.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Newcastle, Bp.
Northover, B.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
Orme, L.
Parekh, L.
Patel, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Pendry, L.
Peston, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Radice, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rea, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennard, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rooker, L.
Roper, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
Sandberg, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Sheldon, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Stallard, L.
Stern, B.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taverne, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Tenby, V.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tordoff, L.
Triesman, L.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.

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Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Warner, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Winston, L.
Worcester, Bp.

GENDER RECOGNITION BILL [HL]

Division No. 3

It was moved by the Baroness O’Cathain, before Clause 19, to insert the new Clause (Religion); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided:

Contents..............144

Not-Contents..............149

CONTENTS

Ackner, L.
Ahmed, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Ampthill, L.
Armstrong of Ilminster, L.
Arran, E.
Attlee, E.
Bagri, L.
Blackwell, L.
Blaker, L.
Boothroyd, B.
Boyce, L.
Brennan, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brookeborough, V.
Brookman, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Chalfont, L.
Chan, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Cobbold, L.
Cockfield, L.
Coe, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Cooke of Islandreagh, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Cuckney, L.
Davies of Coity, L.
Dearing, L.
Denham, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dundee, E.
Elles, B.
Emerton, B.
Erroll, E.
Feldman, L.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Fitt, L.
Fowler, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Glentoran, L.
Goschen, V.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greenway, L.
Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Harris of High Cross, L.
Harris of Peckham, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Henley, L.
Home, E.
Hooson, L.
Howe, E.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hussey of North Bradley, L.
Jauncey of Tullichettle, L.
Jopling, L.
Kimball, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Laird, L.
Lindsay, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
Mackay of Clashfern, L.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L.
Marlesford, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monson, L.
Montrose, D.
Moran, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moynihan, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
O’Cathain, B. [Teller]
Onslow, E.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Palmer, L. [Teller]
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plumb, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Quinton, L.
Rawlinson of Ewell, L.
Reay, L.
Rees, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rotherwick, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
Sanderson of Bowden, L.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Selsdon, L.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shrewsbury, E.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Tebbit, L.
Tenby, V.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Tombs, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Vinson, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Walker of Worcester, L.
Walpole, L.
Weatherill, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Willoughby de Broke, L.
Windlesham, L.
Wolfson, L.

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NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Alli, L.
Amos, B. (Lord President)
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Bach, L.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Bhatia, L.
Billingham, B.
Blackstone, B.
Borrie, L.
Bragg, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Burlison, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carter, L.
Chandos, V.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Crawley, B.
David, B.
Davies of Oldham, L. [Teller]
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Ezra, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Fookes, B.
Gavron, L.
Goldsmith, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grantchester, L.
Greengross, B.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Hamwee, B.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Haskins, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jeger, B.
Jones, L.
Judd, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Lipsey, L.
Lockwood, B.
McAlpine of West Green, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
Manchester, Bp.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marsh, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Mishcon, L.
Mitchell, L.
Morgan, L.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Newby, L.
Newcastle, Bp.
Northover, B.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
Ouseley, L.
Parekh, L.
Patel, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Pendry, L.
Peston, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Radice, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennard, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Roper, L.
Russell-Johnston, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sheldon, L.
Simon, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Stern, B.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Temple-Morris, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Triesman, L.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Warner, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Winston, L.
Worcester, Bp.

Division No. 4

It was moved by the Lord Marlesford to leave out Clause 22; which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided:

Contents..............108

Not-Contents..............145

CONTENTS

Astor of Hever, L.
Bagri, L.
Blackwell, L.
Boothroyd, B.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brookeborough, V.
Burnham, L.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Chalfont, L.
Coe, L.
Colwyn, L.
Cooke of Islandreagh, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cox, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Davies of Coity, L.
Denham, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.

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Donoughue, L.
Dundee, E.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Elton, L.
Erroll, E.
Feldman, L.
Fitt, L.
Fookes, B.
Freeman, L.
Glentoran, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Harris of High Cross, L.
Harris of Peckham, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Home, E.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Kimball, L.
Kingsland, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Laird, L.
Lindsay, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
Mackay of Clashfern, L.
MacLaurin of Knebworth, L.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L.
Marlesford, L. [Teller]
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monson, L.
Montrose, D.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moynihan, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Naseby, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Norton of Louth, L.
O’Cathain, B. [Teller]
Palmer, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Reay, L.
Rees, L.
Renton, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rogan, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sanderson of Bowden, L.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Selsdon, L.
Shrewsbury, E.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Tebbit, L.
Tombs, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Vinson, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Weatherill, L.
Willoughby de Broke, L.
Windlesham, L.
Wolfson, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Amos, B. (Lord President)
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Bhatia, L.
Billingham, B.
Borrie, L.
Bragg, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Burlison, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carter, L.
Chandos, V.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Craigavon, V.
Crawley, B.
David, B.
Davies of Oldham, L. [Teller]
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Ezra, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Gavron, L.
Goldsmith, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grantchester, L.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Hamwee, B.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Haskins, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeger, B.
Jones, L.
Judd, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Layard, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Lipsey, L.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Lockwood, B.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
Maddock, B.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Mitchell, L.
Morgan, L.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Newby, L.
Northover, B.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
Ouseley, L.
Parekh, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Pendry, L.
Peston, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Radice, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Razzall, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennard, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rooker, L.
Roper, L.
Russell-Johnston, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Sandberg, L.
Sawyer, L.

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Scotland of Asthal, B.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Simon, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Temple-Morris, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.
Warner, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Winston, L.


Division No. 5

It was moved by the Lord Filkin, on behalf of the Lord Falconer of Thoroton, that the Bill do now pass; which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided:

Contents..............155

Not-Contents..............57

CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Alli, L.
Amos, B. (Lord President)
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashdown of Norton-sub-
Hamdon, L.
Bagri, L.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Bhatia, L.
Billingham, B.
Borrie, L.
Bragg, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Burlison, L.
Buscombe, B.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carter, L.
Chandos, V.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Craigavon, V.
Crawley, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L. [Teller]
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Ezra, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Gavron, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grantchester, L.
Greengross, B.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Hamwee, B.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Haskins, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeger, B.
Jones, L.
Judd, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Lipsey, L.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Lockwood, B.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Mitchell, L.
Morgan, L.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Newby, L.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
Parekh, L.
Patel, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Pendry, L.
Peston, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Radice, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Razzall, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennard, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rooker, L.
Roper, L.
Russell-Johnston, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
Sandberg, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Temple-Morris, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.

Page 171

2003-04

Volume 237

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Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.
Warner, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Winston, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Armstrong of Ilminster, L.
Attlee, E.
Boyce, L.
Burnham, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Chalfont, L.
Chan, L.
Colwyn, L.
Cooke of Islandreagh, L.
Cox, B.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Elton, L.
Emerton, B.
Erroll, E.
Feldman, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Harris of High Cross, L.
Harris of Peckham, L.
Jauncey of Tullichettle, L.
Kimball, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Laird, L.
Lindsay, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
MacLaurin of Knebworth, L.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L.
Marlesford, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Montrose, D.
Naseby, L.
Northbrook, L.
O’Cathain, B. [Teller]
Palmer, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Reay, L.
Rees, L.
Renton, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Sanderson of Bowden, L.
Selsdon, L.
Shrewsbury, E.
Stewartby, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strange, B.
Tebbit, L. [Teller]
Tombs, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Vinson, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Weatherill, L.
Willoughby de Broke, L.


APPENDIX

PROCEEDINGS OF THE GRAND COMMITTEE (IN THE MOSES ROOM)

The Committee met at half-past three o’clock.

Energy Bill [HL]—The bill was further considered in the Grand Committee; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; the Committee was adjourned after amendment 113ZAA.

The Committee was adjourned at twenty-seven minutes past seven o’clock.