House of Lords
Session 2002 - 03
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Minutes and Order Papers

Minutes and Order Paper - Minutes of Proceedings


 

HOUSE OF LORDS

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

Die Jovis 13° Novembris 2003

The House met at eleven o’clock.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Derby.

1.  Royal Assent—The Lord Speaker (Lord Brabazon of Tara) notified the Queen’s Assent to the following Acts:

Waste and Emissions Trading Actc.33
Arms Control and Disarmament (Inspections) Actc.34
European Union (Accessions) Actc.35
Fire Services Actc. 36

2.  Lord Walker of Doncaster—The Lord Chancellor acquainted the House that Lord Walker of Doncaster, a member of the House, had died on 11th November 2003.

Papers

3.  Affirmative Instrument—The following instrument was laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table:

    Draft Media Ownership (Local Radio and Appointed News Provider) Order 2003, laid under the Communications Act 2003, together with an Explanatory Memorandum.

4.  Negative Instrument—The following instrument was laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:

    Births, Deaths and Marriages (Fees) Order (Northern Ireland) 2003, laid under the Births and Deaths Registration (Northern Ireland) Order 1976.    (—)

5.  Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:

    1.    (i)  Resource Accounts for 2002-03 of the Department for Employment and Learning of Northern Ireland—

      (ii)  Resource Accounts for 2002-03 of the Northern Ireland Assembly—

      (iii)  Resource Accounts for 2002-03 of the Northern Ireland Assembly Ombudsman and the Northern Ireland Commissioner for Complaints—

      (iv)  Accounts for 2002-03 of the Teachers’ Superannuation Scheme for Northern Ireland—

      (v)  Resource Accounts for 2002-03 of the Department of the Environment of Northern Ireland—

      (vi)  Resource Accounts for 2002-03 of the Department of Education of Northern Ireland—

      (vii)  Resource Accounts for 2002-03 of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment of Northern Ireland—

      (viii)  Resource Accounts for 2002-03 of the Office of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister for Northern Ireland—

      (ix)  Resource Accounts for 2002-03 of the Department for Regional Development of Northern Ireland—

      (x)  Resource Accounts for 2002-03 of the Department for Social Development of Northern Ireland—

      (xi)  Resource Accounts for 2002-03 of the HPSS Superannuation Scheme for Northern Ireland—

      (xii)  Resource Accounts for 2002-03 of the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety of Northern Ireland—

      (xiii)  Resource Accounts for 2002-03 of the Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure of Northern Ireland—

      (xiv)  Superannuation and other Allowances Resource Account for 2002-03 of the Department of Finance and Personnel of Northern Ireland—

      (xv)  Resource Accounts for 2002-03 of the Department of Finance and Personnel of Northern Ireland—

      (xvi)  Resource Accounts for 2002-03 of the Office for the Regulation of Electricity and Gas of Northern Ireland—

      (xvii)  Resource Accounts for 2002-03 of the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development of Northern Ireland—

      laid under the Northern Ireland Act 2000 (Prescribed Documents) Order 2002;

    2.    (i)  Amendment List 10 to Air Publication 1269: Royal Air Force Manual of Medical Management and Administration—

      (ii)     Amendment List 2 to Air Publication 3393: Commissioning of Officers and Terms of Service of Officers and Airmen (Aircrew) in the Royal Air Force—

      (iii)     Amendment List 22 to Air Publication 1269A: Assessment of Medical Fitness—

      laid under the Air Force (Constitution ) Act 1917.

Private Business

6.  Mersey Tunnels Bill—A message was brought from the Commons that they have considered the Lords Message of 11th November and have made the following orders:

    That the promoters of the Mersey Tunnels Bill shall have leave to suspend proceedings thereon in order to proceed with it, if they think fit, in the next session of Parliament, provided that notice of their intention to do so is lodged in the Private Bill Office not later than the day before the close of the present session and that all fees due up to that date have been paid;

    That on the fifth sitting day in the next session the bill shall be presented to the House by deposit in the Private Bill Office;

    That a declaration signed by the agent shall be annexed to the bill, stating that it is the same in every respect as the bill at the last stage of its proceedings in this House in the present session;

    That on the next sitting day following presentation, the Clerk in the Private Bill Office shall lay the bill on the Table of the House and, when so laid, the bill shall be read the first, second and third time and shall be recorded in the Journal of the House as having been so read;

    That no further fees shall be charged to such stages.

Public Business

7.  Regulation of Investigatory Powers (Intrusive Surveillance) Order 2003—It was moved by the Lord Goldsmith, on behalf of the Baroness Scotland of Asthal, that the draft Order laid before the House on 11th September be approved; then it was moved by the Baroness Blatch, as an amendment thereto, to leave out all the words after “That” and insert “this House declines to approve the draft Order laid before the House on 11th September”; the debate on the amendment was adjourned.

The House was adjourned during pleasure.

The House was resumed.

Judicial Business

8.  Regina v. East London and the City Mental Health NHS Trust and another (Respondents) ex parte von Brandenburg (aka Hanley) (FC) (Appellant)—It was moved by the Lord Bingham of Cornhill, That the 63rd Report from the Appellate Committee be agreed to; the motion was agreed to. It was ordered and adjudged that the Order of the Court of Appeal of 21st February 2001 be affirmed and the appeal dismissed; and that the question of costs be adjourned sine die. [2003] UKHL 58

9.  Regina v. Secretary of State for the Home Department and another (Respondents) ex parte IH (FC) (Appellant)—It was moved by the Lord Bingham of Cornhill, That the 64th Report from the Appellate Committee be agreed to; the motion was agreed to. It was ordered and adjudged that the Order of the Court of Appeal of 15th May 2002 be affirmed and the appeal dismissed; and that there be no order as to costs save that the costs of the appellant in this House be taxed in accordance with the Access to Justice Act 1999. [2003] UKHL 59

10.  Regina v. City of Sunderland (Respondents) ex parte Beresford (FC) (Appellant)—It was moved by the Lord Bingham of Cornhill, That the 65th Report from the Appellate Committee be agreed to; the motion was agreed to. It was ordered and adjudged that the Order of the Court of Appeal of 26th July 2001 and the Order of Mrs Justice Smith of 14th November 2000 be set aside; that the decision of the Licensing Committee of the Council of the City of Sunderland of 27th April 2000 to refuse to register the “Sports Arena” adjacent to the Princess Anne Park, Washington, Tyne and Wear as a town or village green be quashed; that the Licensing Committee be directed to give effect to the application for registration in the light of the Opinions expressed in this House; and that the question of costs be adjourned sine die. [2003] UKHL 60

11.  Rees (Respondent) v. Darlington Memorial Hospital NHS Trust (Appellants)—Further to the Judgment of the House of 16th October last (58th Report from the Appellate Committee, [2003] UKHL 52), it was ordered that the appellants do pay to the respondent her costs before Mr Stuart Brown QC, in the Court of Appeal and before this House, the amount of such last-mentioned costs to be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

12.  Fytche (Appellant) v. Wincanton Logistics plc (Respondents) (England)—The appeal of Bryan Evans Fytche was presented and it was ordered that in accordance with Standing Order VI the statement and appendix thereto be lodged on or before 25th December next.

13.  Mawdesley and another (Respondents) v. Chief Constable of Cheshire Constabulary and another (Petitioners)—The petition of the Director of Public Prosecutions praying for leave to appeal in accordance with the Administration of Justice Act 1960 was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee (lodged 11th November).

14.  In re Sutej (Petitioner) (application for a writ of Habeas Corpus)—The petition of Ingrid Sutej praying for leave to appeal in accordance with the Administration of Justice Act 1960 was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee (lodged 12th November).

15.  Campbell (Appellant) v. MGN Limited (Respondents)—The appeal was set down for hearing and referred to an Appellate Committee.

16.  McCabe (Respondent) v. Cornwall County Council and others (Appellants)—The appeal was set down for hearing and referred to an Appellate Committee.

17.  Glasgow City Council (Respondents) v. Caststop Limited (Appellants) (Scotland)—The appeal was set down for hearing and referred to an Appellate Committee.

18.  Cream Holdings Limited and others (Respondents) v. Banerjee and others (Appellants)—The appeal was set down for hearing and referred to an Appellate Committee.

19.  South Bucks District Council and another (Respondents) v. Porter (FC) (Appellant)—The petition of the appellant praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 11th December next (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed.

20.  Adams (Respondent) v. Bracknell Forest Borough Council (Appellants)—The petition of the appellants praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 18th December next (the agents for the respondent consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed.

The House was adjourned during pleasure.

The House was resumed.

Public Business

21.  Regulation of Investigatory Powers (Intrusive Surveillance) Order 2003—The adjourned debate on the amendment by the Baroness Blatch to the motion to approve the Order was resumed; after further debate, the amendment was (by leave of the House) withdrawn; then the original motion was agreed to.

22.  Regulation of Investigatory Powers (Communications Data) Order 2003—It was moved by the Lord Goldsmith, on behalf of the Baroness Scotland of Asthal, that the draft Order laid before the House on 11th September be approved; then it was moved by the Earl of Northesk, as an amendment thereto, at end to insert “and this House calls upon Her Majesty’s Government to lay a new draft order wherein, notwithstanding the provisions of the Social Security Fraud Act 2001, the Department for Work and Pensions and the Northern Ireland Social Security Investigators are included in the list of named public authorities on the face of the Order and thereby subject to Part 1, Chapter 2, of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000.”; the amendment was disagreed to (see division list 1); then it was moved by the Lord Phillips of Sudbury, as an amendment to the original motion, at end to insert “and this House calls upon Her Majesty’s Government to lay a new draft order requiring the Interception of Communications Commissioner to inform any person who appears to have been adversely affected by any wilful or reckless failure on the part of any person exercising or undertaking any of the powers and duties conferred or imposed on him by the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 in relation to the acquisition or disclosure of communications data, subject to national security safeguards.”; the amendment was agreed to (see division list 2); then it was moved by the Baroness Blatch, as an amendment to the original motion, at end to insert “and this House calls upon Her Majesty’s Government to lay a new draft order only when a full report has been given to Parliament on the entitlement (and the conditions attaching thereto) on the part of any foreign government, body or person to require access to communications data in the United Kingdom pursuant to any legislation, agreement, treaty or convention whether national, international or in relation to the European Union and when the Government have taken note of Parliament’s view on that report.”; the amendment was agreed to (see division list 3); then the original motion, as amended, was agreed to.

23.  Regulation of Investigatory Powers (Directed Surveillance and Covert Human Intelligence Sources) Order 2003—It was moved by the Lord Goldsmith, on behalf of the Baroness Scotland of Asthal, that the draft Order laid before the House on 15th October be approved; the motion was agreed to.

24.  Retention of Communications Data (Code of Practice) Order 2003—It was moved by the Lord Goldsmith, on behalf of the Baroness Scotland of Asthal, that the draft Order laid before the House on 29th October be approved; the motion was agreed to.

25.  Retention of Communications Data (Extension of Initial Period) Order 2003—It was moved by the Lord Goldsmith, on behalf of the Baroness Scotland of Asthal, that the draft Order laid before the House on 11th September be approved; the motion was agreed to.

26.  Extradition Bill—The bill was returned from the Commons with certain amendments agreed to with amendments; certain other amendments disagreed to but with amendments proposed in lieu thereof; one of the amendments disagreed to with a reason for such disagreement; and with the remaining amendments agreed to; it was ordered that the Commons amendments and reason be printed. (HL Bill 122)

27.  Sexual Offences Bill [HL]—The Commons amendments were considered; a motion that the House do agree to a Commons amendment but do propose an amendment in lieu of words so left out of the bill was disagreed to (see division list 4); a motion that the House do agree to that Commons amendment with an amendment in lieu of the words so left out of the bill was agreed to (see division list 5); a motion that the House do disagree to a Commons amendment but do propose an amendment in lieu thereof was agreed to; a Commons amendment was disagreed to; a Committee was appointed to propose a reason for such disagreement.

    The Lords following were named of the Committee:

    Bassam of Brighton, L.

    Noakes, B.

    Scotland of Asthal, B.

    The Committee reported that they had proposed the following reason in respect of the disagreement to Commons amendment 261:

    “Because it would result in the inconsistent treatment of persons convicted of abolished homosexual offences.”

    The Report was agreed to.

    Certain Commons amendments were agreed to with amendments; the remaining Commons amendments were agreed to; then the bill was returned to the Commons with a reason and amendments.

28.  Water Bill [HL]—The Commons amendments were considered; a motion that the House do disagree with a Commons amendment but do propose an amendment to the words so restored to the bill was disagreed to (see division list 6); a motion that the House do agree to a Commons amendment but do propose an amendment in lieu of the words so left out of the bill was moved and (by leave of the House) withdrawn; motions that the House do disagree to certain Commons amendments were moved and (by leave of the House) withdrawn; an amendment to a Commons amendment was disagreed to (see division list 7); a motion that the House do disagree to a Commons amendment was disagreed to (see division list 8); then the remaining Commons amendments were agreed to.

29.  Iran—The Lord Hannay of Chiswick asked Her Majesty’s Government how they see the prospects for Iran’s relationship with the rest of the world in the light of the recent visit by the Foreign Secretary; after debate, the question was answered by the Baroness Crawley.

The House was adjourned at four minutes before eleven o’clock

till tomorrow, eleven o’clock.

PAUL HAYTER

  Clerk of the Parliaments

 
 
 
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© Parliamentary copyright 2003
Prepared: 14 november 2003