House of Lords Journal 236 (Session 2002-03)


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Monday 7 July 2003

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:


Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Adebowale, L.
Ahmed, L.
Alexander of Weedon, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Ampthill, L.
Andrews, B.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Arran, E.
Ashcroft, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Best, L.
Bhatia, L.
Biffen, L.
Billingham, B.
Birt, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blackwell, L.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Bledisloe, V.
Boothroyd, B.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bragg, L.
Brett, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Brightman, L.
Brittan of Spennithorne, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Buscombe, B.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carter, L.
Chadlington, L.
Chalfont, L.
Chandos, V.
Chorley, L.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke Hampstead, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cobbold, L.
Cockfield, L.
Coe, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Colwyn, L.
Condon, L.
Cooke of Thorndon, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Courtown, E.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Crathorne, L.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Denham, L.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donaldson of Lymington, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Eatwell, L.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Elder, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Emerton, B.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Ezra, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Fearn, L.
Feldman, L.
Ferrers, E.
Filkin, L.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Fowler, L.
Freeman, L.
Freyberg, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Geddes, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gilbert, L.
Gilmour of Craigmillar, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Golding, B.
Goldsmith, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goschen, V.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greengross, B.
Greenway, L.
Gregson, L.
Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Grocott, L.
Habgood, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hannay of Chiswick, L.
Hanningfield, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Haskel, L.
Haskins, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.

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Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Hope of Craighead, L.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Hylton, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
Jacobs, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeger, B.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Joffe, L.
Jones, L.
Jopling, L.
Jordan, L.
Judd, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kilclooney, L.
Kimball, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kirkham, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Laing of Dunphail, L.
Laird, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lane, L.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Lipsey, L.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lloyd of Berwick, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McCarthy, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L.
Mallalieu, B.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Michie of Gallanach, B.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Mishcon, L.
Mitchell, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montrose, D.
Moore of Wolvercote, L.
Morgan, L.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moynihan, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Naseby, L.
Neill of Bladen, L.
Newby, L.
Newcastle, Bp.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Noakes, B.
Northbourne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Ouseley, L.
Oxburgh, L.
Palmer, L.
Parekh, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Pendry, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Perry of Walton, L.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Plumb, L.
Portsmouth, Bp.
Powell of Bayswater, L.
Prashar, B.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Quirk, L.
Radice, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Richard, L.
Rix, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Roll of Ipsden, L.
Rooker, L.
Rosslyn, E.
Russell, E.
Russell-Johnston, L.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Saatchi, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandberg, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Selsdon, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Sheldon, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Slim, V.
Slynn of Hadley, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Stallard, L.
Stern, B.
Stevens of Ludgate, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Tanlaw, L.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Swynnerton, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thornton, B.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trumpington, B.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Ullswater, V.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.

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Warnock, B.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilcox, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Newcastle.

Judicial Business
1.Arsenal Football Club plc (Respondents) v. Reed (Petitioner)—The petition of Matthew William Reed praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee (lodged 4th June).
2.Regina v. Governor of Her Majesty’s Prison Brixton and others (Respondents) ex parte Rottman (Petitioner)—The petition of Michael Rottman praying for an extension of time within which the petition may be lodged and for leave to appeal in accordance with the Administration of Justice Act 1960 was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee.
3.In re McKerr (Respondent) (Northern Ireland)—The appeal was set down for hearing and referred to an Appellate Committee.
4.Reliance Water Controls Limited (Original Respondents and Cross-appellants) v. Altecnic Limited (Original Appellants and Cross-respondents)—The petition of the original appellants and cross-appellants was presented praying that the appeal and cross-appeal be withdrawn on the terms agreed between the parties (the agents for the original respondents and cross-respondents consenting thereto); and it was ordered as prayed.
5.Appeal Committee—The 61st Report from the Appeal Committee was agreed to and the following Orders were made—

Euro Brokers Holdings Limited (Respondents) v. Monecor (London) Limited (Petitioners)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondents be at liberty to apply for their costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d); and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Hinchy (Respondent) v. Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Petitioner)—That leave to appeal be given; and that the petition of appeal be lodged by 21st July.

KR and others (Respondents) v. Royal & Sun Alliance plc (Petitioners)—That the respondents be invited to lodge objections by 21st July.

Roe (a patient by his litigation friend) (Respondent) v. Sheffield City Council (Respondents) and others (Petitioners)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondents be at liberty to apply for their costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d); and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Roe (a patient by his litigation friend) (Respondent) v. Sheffield City Council (Petitioners) and others (Respondents) and others—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondents be at liberty to apply for their costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d); and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Papers

6.Command Paper—The following paper was presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:

Health—Government Response to the Second Report of the House of Commons Select Committee on Health on NHS Foundation Trusts.

(5876)

7.Affirmative Instrument—The following instrument was laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table:

Draft Partnerships etc. (Removal of Twenty Member Limit) (Northern Ireland) Order 2003, laid under the Northern Ireland Act 2000, together with an Explanatory Memorandum.

8.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Rail Vehicle Accessibility (Festiniog Railway Company Vehicle Number 122) Exemption Order 2003, laid under the Disability Discrimination Act 1995;
 (1687)
2.Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2003, laid under the Road Traffic Act 1988.
 (1690)

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9.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Report and Accounts for 2001 of the Special EU Programmes Body, laid under the North/South Cooperation (Implementation Bodies) (Northern Ireland) Order 1999;
2.Report for 2002–03 of the Chief Electoral Officer for Northern Ireland, laid under the Electoral Law Act (Northern Ireland) 1962;
3.Accounts for 2002–03 of the Higher Education Funding Council for England, laid under the Further and Higher Education Act 1992, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General;
4.Accounts for 2002–03 of the Broadcasting Standards Commission, laid under the Broadcasting Act 1996, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General;
5.Report for 2002 of the Maritime and Coastguard Agency on Prosecutions and Interventions, laid under the Merchant Shipping Act 1995;
6.Report and Accounts for 2002–03 of the Office of Legal Services Ombudsman, laid under the Courts and Legal Services Act 1990;
7.Report for 2002–03 of the Criminal Cases Review Commission, laid under the Criminal Appeal Act 1995.

Public Business

10.Dealing in Cultural Objects (Offences) Bill—A bill to provide for an offence of acquiring, disposing of, importing or exporting tainted cultural objects, or agreeing or arranging to do so; and for connected purposes was brought from the Commons, read a first time and ordered to be printed. (HL Bill 90)
11.Dealing in Cultural Objects (Offences) Bill—It was ordered that the Explanatory Notes relating to the bill be printed. (HL Bill 90–EN)
12.Legal Deposit Libraries Bill—A bill to make provision in place of section 15 of the Copyright Act 1911 relating to the deposit of printed and similar publications, including on and off line publications; to make provision about the use and preservation of material deposited; and for connected purposes was brought from the Commons, read a first time and ordered to be printed. (HL Bill 91)
13.Sustainable Energy Bill—A bill to make provision about the development and promotion of a sustainable energy policy; to amend the Utilities Act 2000; and for connected purposes was brought from the Commons, read a first time and ordered to be printed. (HL Bill 92)
14.Co-operatives and Community Benefit Societies Bill—The bill was returned from the Commons with the amendments agreed to.
15.Marine Safety Bill—The bill was read a third time and passed.
16.Criminal Justice Bill—The House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; an amendment was moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; the House was resumed for a statement; the House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were agreed to; the question that a clause stand part of the bill was negatived; an amendment was moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; an amendment was agreed to (see division list); the House was resumed.
17.Social Security (Jobcentre Plus Interviews for Partners) Regulations 2003—It was moved by the Baroness Hollis of Heigham that the draft Regulations laid before the House on 25th June be approved; after debate, the motion was agreed to.
18.Avian Influenza and Newcastle Disease (England and Wales) Order 2003—It was moved by the Lord Whitty that the draft Order laid before the House on 25th June be approved; after debate, the motion was agreed to.
19.Criminal Justice Bill—The House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; amendments were agreed to; the House was resumed after amendment 70A.

The House was adjourned at six minutes past ten o’clock
till tomorrow, half-past two o’clock.

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DIVISION

CRIMINAL JUSTICE BILL

It was moved by the Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, in Clause 12, page 7, line 35, to leave out paragraph (c); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the Committee divided:

Contents..............114

Not-Contents..............97

CONTENTS

Addington, L.
Adebowale, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Ashcroft, L.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Barker, B.
Blatch, B.
Bridgeman, V.
Brittan of Spennithorne, L.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Burnham, L.
Buscombe, B.
Byford, B.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L. [Teller]
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
Denham, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Elton, L.
Ferrers, E.
Fookes, B.
Fowler, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Geddes, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Greenway, L.
Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hanningfield, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Listowel, E.
Luke, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mancroft, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Michie of Gallanach, B.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montrose, D.
Moynihan, L.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Noakes, B.
Onslow, E.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Palmer, L.
Perry of Walton, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Plumb, L.
Razzall, L.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Russell, E.
St. John of Bletso, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandberg, L.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Selsdon, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shutt of Greetland, L. [Teller]
Skelmersdale, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Stern, B.
Stewartby, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trumpington, B.
Ullswater, V.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Weatherill, L.
Wilcox, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Ahmed, L.
Alli, L.
Andrews, B.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Bach, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Blackstone, B.
Borrie, L.
Bragg, L.
Brett, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Burlison, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carter, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Crawley, B.
David, B.
Davies of Oldham, L. [Teller]
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Dixon, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Gale, B.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gilbert, L.
Golding, B.
Goldsmith, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Hayman, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Hoyle, L.

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Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Jones, L.
Jordan, L.
Judd, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
McCarthy, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L.
Mallalieu, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Mitchell, L.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Parekh, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Pendry, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rooker, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Simon, V.
Stallard, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Temple-Morris, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
(Lord President)
Williamson of Horton, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.


APPENDIX

PROCEEDINGS OF THE GRAND COMMITTEE (IN COMMITTEE ROOMS 3A AND 4B)

The Committee met at half-past three o’clock.

Fire Services Bill—The bill was further considered in the Grand Committee; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; amendments were agreed to; the Committee was adjourned after amendment 33.

The Committee was adjourned at three minutes past seven o’clock.