House of Lords Journal 236 (Session 2002-03)


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Thursday 8 May 2003

The House met at eleven o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:


Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Alderdice, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Andrews, B.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Arran, E.
Ashdown of Norton-sub-
Hamdon, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Astor, V.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Bhatia, L.
Biffen, L.
Billingham, B.
Bingham of Cornhill, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Boothroyd, B.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bragg, L.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Brittan of Spennithorne, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butler of Brockwell, L.
Butterworth, L.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carrington, L.
Carter, L.
Chalfont, L.
Chan, L.
Chandos, V.
Chelmsford, Bp.
Clarke Hampstead, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cobbold, L.
Cockfield, L.
Coe, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Cooke of Islandreagh, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Crathorne, L.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Dahrendorf, L.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Derby, Bp.
Desai, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Dundee, E.
Eames, L.

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Elder, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Ezra, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Ferrers, E.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Fowler, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freeman, L.
Freyberg, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Gavron, L.
Geddes, L.
Geraint, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gilmour of Craigmillar, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goldsmith, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goschen, V.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greengross, B.
Greenway, L.
Grenfell, L.
Grocott, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hanningfield, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of Peckham, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Haskel, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Healey, L.
Henley, L.
Hereford, Bp.
Higgins, L.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Hoffmann, L.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Home, E.
Hooson, L.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Hussey of North Bradley, L.
Hutton, L.
Hylton, L.
Inge, L.
Jacobs, L.
Jeger, B.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jones, L.
Judd, L.
Kilclooney, L.
Kimball, L.
King of Bridgwater, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kirkham, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Laing of Dunphail, L.
Laird, L.
Laming, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Lipsey, L.
Liverpool, E.
Lloyd of Berwick, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackay of Clashfern, L.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L.
Mallalieu, B.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Methuen, L.
Millett, L.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Mishcon, L.
Mitchell, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montrose, D.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Naseby, L.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicholls of Birkenhead, L.
Nicol, B.
Noakes, B.
Northbourne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Orme, L.
Ouseley, L.
Oxford, Bp.
Palmer, L.
Patel, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Patten, L.
Peel, E.
Pendry, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Perry of Walton, L.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Plumb, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prashar, B.
Prior, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Quinton, L.
Quirk, L.
Radice, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodger of Earlsferry, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Roll of Ipsden, L.
Rooker, L.
Roper, L.
Rosslyn, E.
Russell, E.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Saatchi, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.

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Sandberg, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selsdon, L.
Sewel, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Sheldon, L.
Shrewsbury, E.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Slim, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Southwark, Bp.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stern, B.
Stewartby, L.
Steyn, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L.
Sutherland of Houndwood, L.
Swinfen, L.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Tebbit, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Truro, Bp.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Ullswater, V.
Varley, L.
Vincent of Coleshill, L.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wakeham, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Walker of Worcester, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Warner, L.
Warnock, B.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilcox, B.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Willoughby de Broke, L.
Wilson of Tillyorn, L.
Windlesham, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Worcester, Bp.
Wright of Richmond, L.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Chelmsford.

1.Royal Assent—The Lord Speaker (Lord Brabazon of Tara) notified the Queen’s Assent to the following Acts:

European Parliament (Representation) Act         c. 7

National Minimum Wage (Enforcement Notices) Act         c. 8

Electricity (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act         c. 9

Regional Assemblies (Preparations) Act         c. 10

Industrial Development (Financial Assistance) Act         c. 11

2.Leave of Absence—Leave of absence was granted to the Lord Chancellor for Monday 19th to Thursday 22nd May.

Papers

3.Affirmative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table:
(i)Draft Employment Equality (Sexual Orientation) Regulations 2003, together with an Explanatory Memorandum—
(ii)Draft Employment Equality (Religion or Belief) Regulations 2003, together with an Explanatory Memorandum—
(iii)Draft Race Relations Act 1976 (Amendment) Regulations 2003, together with an Explanatory Memorandum—
(iv)Draft Disability Discrimination Act 1995 (Amendment) Regulations 2003, together with an Explanatory Memorandum—

laid under the European Communities Act 1972.

4.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1. (i)Adoption (Bringing Children into the United Kingdom) Regulations 2003—(1173)
(ii)Registration of Foreign Adoptions Regulations 2003—(1255)
 laid under the Adoption Act 1976;
2.Community Care (Delayed Discharges etc.) Act (Qualifying Services) (England) Regulations 2003, laid under the Community Care (Delayed Discharges etc.) Act 2003;
 (1196)
3.Carers and Disabled Children (Vouchers) (England) Regulations 2003, laid under the Children Act 1989;
 (1216)

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4.Non–Contentious Probate Fees (Amendment) Order 2003, laid under the Supreme Court Act 1981;
 (1239)
5.Safety of Sports Grounds (Designation) Order 2003, laid under the Safety of Sports Grounds Act 1975.
 (1256)

Public Business

5.Courts Bill [HL]—The report was received; amendments were agreed to; amendments were moved and (by leave of the House) withdrawn; amendments to amendments were agreed to (see division lists 1 and 2); then the amendments were agreed to; further consideration on report was adjourned.

The House was adjourned during pleasure.
The House was resumed.

Judicial Business

6.Russell (Respondent) v. Devine (AP) (Appellant) (On Appeal from the Court of Appeal Northern Ireland) (Northern Ireland)—It was moved by the Lord Bingham of Cornhill, That the 30th Report from the Appellate Committee be agreed to; the motion was agreed to. It was ordered and adjudged that the Order of the Court of Appeal in Northern Ireland of 4th July 2001 be affirmed and the appeal dismissed; that the certified question be answered in the negative; and that there be no order as to costs save that the costs of the appellant be taxed in accordance with the Legal Aid, Advice and Assistance (Northern Ireland) Order 1981. [2003] UKHL 24
7.Regina v. Drew (Appellant) (On Appeal from the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division))—The 31st Report from the Appellate Committee was made and ordered to be printed (HL Paper 101). It was moved by the Lord Bingham of Cornhill, That the Report be agreed to; the motion was agreed to. It was ordered and adjudged that the Order of the Court of Appeal of 19th December 2001 be affirmed and the appeal dismissed. [2003] UKHL 25
8.Grady (Respondent) v. Her Majesty’s Prison Service (Petitioners)—The petition of Her Majesty’s Prison Service praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee.
9.Secretary of State for Trade and Industry (Appellant) v. Frid (Respondent) (Civil Appeal from Her Majesty’s High Court of Justice)—The petition of the appellant praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 22nd May next (the agents for the respondent consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed.

The House was adjourned during pleasure.
The House was resumed.

Public Business

10.Courts Bill [HL]—The bill was further considered on report; amendments were agreed to; amendments were moved and (by leave of the House) withdrawn; an amendment was agreed to (see division list 3); amendments were disagreed to (see division lists 4 and 5); further consideration on report was adjourned after amendment 117.
11.Literature: removal of barriers—The Lord Addington asked Her Majesty’s Government what measures are being taken to remove all barriers to literature for those who have difficulties accessing books in traditional print formats; after debate, the question was answered by the Lord Davies of Oldham.

The House was adjourned at twenty-nine minutes past eight o’clock
till tomorrow, eleven o’clock.


DIVISIONS

COURTS BILL [HL]

Division No. 1

It was moved by the Lord Goodhart, as an amendment to the amendment to leave out Clause 5 and insert the new Clause (Functions of courts boards), in line 12, at end to insert:

“(2A)If the Lord Chancellor rejects a recommendation made by a courts board about a final business plan under subsection (1) he shall give to the board written reasons for so doing.”;

which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided:

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Contents..............98

Not-Contents..............83

CONTENTS

Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Addington, L.
Alderdice, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Astor of Hever, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Brittan of Spennithorne, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Buscombe, B.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Chan, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Crathorne, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Falkland, V.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Fookes, B.
Freeman, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Geddes, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goodhart, L. [Teller]
Greenway, L.
Hanham, B.
Hanningfield, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Home, E.
Hooson, L.
Howe, E.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hylton, L.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Kimball, L.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Liverpool, E.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Methuen, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Montrose, D.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Noakes, B.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Patten, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Plumb, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Prior, L.
Quinton, L.
Reay, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Roper, L.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Saatchi, L.
Sandwich, E.
Seccombe, B. [Teller]
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Stern, B.
Strathclyde, L.
Taverne, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Ullswater, V.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.
Wilcox, B.
Windlesham, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Ahmed, L.
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Bach, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Billingham, B.
Blackstone, B.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Brett, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carter, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Craig of Radley, L.
Crawley, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Desai, L.
Dixon, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Goldsmith, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Haskel, L.
Hayman, B.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)
Jones, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Layard, L.
Lipsey, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller]
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Mitchell, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Nicol, B.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Pendry, L.
Peston, L.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Sewel, L.
Sheldon, L.
Simon, V.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Varley, L.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
(Lord Privy Seal)

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Division No. 2

It was moved by the Lord Phillips of Sudbury, as an amendment to the new Schedule (Constitution and procedure of courts boards), in line 8, to leave out “one member who is a lay justice who is” and insert “two members who are lay justices who are”; which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided:

Contents..............95

Not-Contents..............85

CONTENTS

Addington, L.
Alderdice, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Astor of Hever, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Brittan of Spennithorne, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Buscombe, B.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Chan, L.
Chelmsford, Bp.
Coe, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Crathorne, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Fookes, B.
Fowler, L.
Freeman, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Geddes, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goodhart, L.
Greenway, L.
Hanham, B.
Hanningfield, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Home, E.
Hooson, L.
Howe, E.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hylton, L.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Kimball, L.
Liverpool, E.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Methuen, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Noakes, B.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Patten, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L. [Teller]
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Plumb, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Prior, L.
Quinton, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rennard, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Roper, L.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Sandwich, E.
Seccombe, B. [Teller]
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Stern, B.
Strathclyde, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Ullswater, V.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.
Wilcox, B.
Windlesham, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Ahmed, L.
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Bach, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Billingham, B.
Blackstone, B.
Borrie, L.
Brett, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carter, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Craig of Radley, L.
Crawley, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Desai, L.
Dixon, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Gavron, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grenfell, L.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Haskel, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)
Jones, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Layard, L.
Lipsey, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller]
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mallalieu, B.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Mitchell, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Nicol, B.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Pendry, L.
Peston, L.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.

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Scotland of Asthal, B.
Sewel, L.
Sheldon, L.
Simon, V.
Slim, V.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
(Lord Privy Seal)

Division No. 3

It was moved by the Baroness Anelay of St Johns, in Clause 25, page 11, line 42, at end to insert:

“( )In exercising his powers under subsection (1), the Lord Chancellor shall have regard to the need to ensure that court-houses are locally accessible by persons resident in each local justice area.”;

which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided:

Contents..............90

Not-Contents..............89

CONTENTS

Addington, L.
Alderdice, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Astor of Hever, L.
Avebury, L.
Barker, B.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Biffen, L.
Blatch, B.
Bradshaw, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Burnham, L.
Buscombe, B.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L. [Teller]
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Crickhowell, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Ezra, L.
Ferrers, E.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Geraint, L.
Goodhart, L.
Harris of Peckham, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Howe, E.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Kirkham, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Marlesford, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Methuen, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monson, L.
Newby, L.
Noakes, B.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Roper, L.
Russell, E.
St. John of Bletso, L.
Sandberg, L.
Sandwich, E.
Seccombe, B. [Teller]
Selsdon, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shrewsbury, E.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Stewartby, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Tebbit, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Ullswater, V.
Vivian, L.
Wakeham, L.
Walmsley, B.
Weatherill, L.
Wigoder, L.
Willoughby de Broke, L.
Windlesham, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Ahmed, L.
Amos, B.
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Bach, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L. [Teller]
Berkeley, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Billingham, B.
Blackstone, B.
Borrie, L.
Brett, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Burlison, L.
Carter, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Crawley, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Desai, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Gavron, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Haskel, L.
Hayman, B.
Healey, L.
Hollick, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.

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Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)
Judd, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lipsey, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Mishcon, L.
Mitchell, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Ouseley, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rooker, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Sewel, L.
Sheldon, L.
Simon, V.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
(Lord Privy Seal)
Woolmer of Leeds, L.

Division No. 4

It was moved by the Lord Goodhart, in Schedule 2, page 61, line 34, to leave out sub-paragraphs (2) and (3) and insert:

“(2)Interest shall be payable from the date of default on the amount of the fine for the time being unpaid at the rate of interest payable on judgment debts.”;

which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided:

Contents..............75

Not-Contents..............89

CONTENTS

Addington, L.
Alderdice, L.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Astor of Hever, L.
Barker, B.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Burnham, L.
Buscombe, B.
Clement-Jones, L.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Crickhowell, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Ferrers, E.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Goodhart, L. [Teller]
Hanningfield, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Howe, E.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McNally, L.
Marlesford, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Methuen, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Newby, L.
Noakes, B.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Prashar, B.
Rawlings, B.
Redesdale, L.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Roper, L.
Russell, E.
St. John of Bletso, L.
Sandberg, L.
Seccombe, B. [Teller]
Selsdon, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shrewsbury, E.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Swinfen, L.
Tebbit, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Ullswater, V.
Wakeham, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Weatherill, L.
Windlesham, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Ahmed, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Bach, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L. [Teller]
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Billingham, B.
Blackstone, B.
Borrie, L.
Brett, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Burlison, L.
Carter, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Crawley, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Desai, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Gavron, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.

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Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Harris of Haringey, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayman, B.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)
Judd, L.
Kilclooney, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lipsey, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Mishcon, L.
Mitchell, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rooker, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Sewel, L.
Sheldon, L.
Simon, V.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Warner, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
(Lord Privy Seal)
Woolmer of Leeds, L.

Division No. 5

It was moved by the Lord Swinfen, in Clause 46, page 22, line 23, at end to insert “; and

“(c)the procedure to be followed by court security staff in the discharge of their functions”;

which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided:

Contents..............40

Not-Contents..............72

CONTENTS

Addington, L.
Alderdice, L.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Astor of Hever, L.
Barker, B.
Blatch, B.
Buscombe, B.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Ferrers, E.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Goodhart, L.
Hanningfield, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Luke, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
Marlesford, L.
Monson, L.
Noakes, B.
O’Cathain, B.
Rawlings, B.
Rees, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Russell, E.
Sandberg, L.
Seccombe, B. [Teller]
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shrewsbury, E.
Skelmersdale, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Swinfen, L. [Teller]
Tordoff, L.
Ullswater, V.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Ahmed, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Bach, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L. [Teller]
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Billingham, B.
Blackstone, B.
Borrie, L.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Burlison, L.
Carter, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Crawley, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Desai, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Gale, B.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Harris of Haringey, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayman, B.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lipsey, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Mitchell, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rooker, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Sewel, L.

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2002-03

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Simon, V.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Uddin, B.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
(Lord Privy Seal)
Woolmer of Leeds, L.