House of Lords Journal 236 (Session 2002-03)


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Monday 3 February 2003

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Alderdice, L.
Alexander of Weedon, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Andrews, B.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Armstrong of Ilminster, L.
Arran, E.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Astor, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Bach, L.
Bagri, L.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Berkeley, L.
Best, L.
Bhatia, L.
Biffen, L.
Billingham, B.
Birt, L.
Blatch, B.
Boothroyd, B.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bragg, L.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Brightman, L.
Brigstocke, B.
Brittan of Spennithorne, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brookeborough, V.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butterworth, L.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carey of Clifton, L.
Carlile of Berriew, L.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carter, L.
Cavendish of Furness, L.
Chalfont, L.
Chalker of Wallasey, B.
Chan, L.
Chandos, V.
Chorley, L.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke Hampstead, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cockfield, L.
Coe, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Cooke of Islandreagh, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Courtown, E.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Cuckney, L.
Dahrendorf, L.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Denham, L.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Eatwell, L.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elder, L.
Elis-Thomas, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Emerton, B.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Ezra, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Fearn, L.
Feldman, L.
Filkin, L.
Fitt, L.
Fookes, B.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Fowler, L.
Freeman, L.
Freyberg, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Gavron, L.
Geraint, L.
Gibson, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gilbert, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Glentoran, L.
Golding, B.
Goldsmith, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Greengross, B.

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Greenway, L.
Gregson, L.
Grenfell, L.
Grocott, L.
Habgood, L.
Hanham, B.
Hanningfield, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayman, B.
Hereford, Bp.
Higgins, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Hylton, L.
Inge, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jellicoe, E.
Jones, L.
Jopling, L.
Jordan, L.
Judd, L.
Kimball, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kirkham, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Laird, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Levy, L.
Lichfield, Bp.
Lipsey, L.
Liverpool, E.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Michie of Gallanach, B.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Mishcon, L.
Mitchell, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montrose, D.
Morgan, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moynihan, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Naseby, L.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Noakes, B.
Northbourne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northover, B.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
O’Cathain, B.
O’Neill of Bengarve, B.
Onslow, E.
Orme, L.
Ouseley, L.
Oxburgh, L.
Palmer, L.
Parekh, L.
Patel, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Pendry, L.
Perry of Walton, L.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Powell of Bayswater, L.
Prior, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Quinton, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Richard, L.
Rix, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Roll of Ipsden, L.
Roper, L.
Rosslyn, E.
Russell-Johnston, L.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Saatchi, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandberg, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Selsdon, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Sheldon, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Slim, V.
Slynn of Hadley, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Southwark, Bp.
Stallard, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stevens of Ludgate, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stodart of Leaston, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Tanlaw, L.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Tebbit, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Swynnerton, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trumpington, B.
Turnberg, L.
Uddin, B.
Varley, L.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.

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Walmsley, B.
Warner, L.
Warnock, B.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Weatherill, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilcox, B.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Winston, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Lichfield.

Judicial Business

1.Secretary of State for Trade and Industry (Petitioner) v. Frid (Respondent)—The petition of the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry praying for leave for an appeal to be brought direct from the High Court of Justice in accordance with Part II of the Administration of Justice Act 1969 was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee (lodged 23rd January).
2.Regina v. Durham Constabulary and another (Petitioner) ex parte R (Respondent)—The petition of the Secretary of State for the Home Department praying for leave to appeal in accordance with the Administration of Justice Act 1960 was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee (lodged 12th December).
3.Regina v. Walls (Respondent)—The petition of the Crown Prosecution Service praying for leave to appeal in accordance with the Criminal Appeal Act 1968 was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee.
4.Thomson (Respondent) v. Kvaerner Govan Limited (Appellants) (Scotland)—The appeal was set down for hearing and referred to an Appellate Committee (lodged 30th January).
5.Official Receiver (Appellant) v. Wadge Rapps & Hunt (a firm) and another and two other actions—The appointment of an amicus curiae having been made on 31st January, it was ordered that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing be extended to 14th March next.
6.Waters and others (Appellants) v. Welsh Development Agency (Respondents)—The petition of the appellants praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 13th March next (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed (lodged 30th January).
7.Appeal Committee—The following Orders were made pursuant to the First Report:

Air Foyle Limited (Respondents) v. Crosby-Clarke (Petitioner)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondents be at liberty to apply for their costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d); and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

UCB Group Limited (Respondents) v. Hedworth (FC) (Petitioner)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the costs of the petitioner be taxed in accordance with the Access to Justice Act 1999; and that the respondents be at liberty to apply for their costs in accordance with direction 5.1(c); and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

8.Appeal Committee—The following Orders were made pursuant to the 14th Report:

Parsons Corporation (a company incorporated under the laws of the State of California, USA) and others and others (Petitioners) v. C V Scheepvaartonderneming Happy Ranger (a company incorporated under the laws of the Netherlands) (Respondents) and others—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondents be at liberty to apply for their costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d); and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Parsons Corporation (a company incorporated under the laws of the State of California, USA) and others (Respondents) v. C V Scheepvaartonderneming Happy Ranger (a company incorporated under the laws of the Netherlands) (Petitioners) and others—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondents be at liberty to apply for their costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d); and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Gorringe (by her litigation friend June Elizabeth Todd) (Petitioner) v. Calderdale Metropolitan Borough Council (Respondents)—That the petition be referred for hearing.

Papers

9.House of Lords Resource Accounts 2001–02—The Resource Accounts for the year 2001–02 were laid before the House and ordered to be printed. (HL Paper 44)

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10.Command Papers—The following papers, having been presented to the House by command of Her Majesty on 31st January, were ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Treaty Series—First Supplementary List of Ratifications, Accessions, Withdrawals, etc., for 2002;
 (5737)
2.Foreign Affairs—Agreement between the United Kingdom and New Zealand, concerning Trials under Pitcairn Law in New Zealand and related matters, together with an Explanatory Memorandum;
 (5745)
3.Trade and Industry—Explanatory Memorandum relating to the Industrial Training Levy (Engineering Construction Board) Order 2003.
 (—)
11.Statutory Instruments (Standing Order 71)—The following negative instruments, having been laid before the House on 31st January, were ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Child Support (Decisions and Appeals) (Amendment) Regulations 2003, laid under the Child Support Act 1991;
 (129)
2.Water Resources (Environmental Impact Assessment) (England and Wales) Regulations 2003, laid under the European Communities Act 1972;
 (164)
3.Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) (Amendment) Regulations 2003, laid under the Road Traffic Act 1988.
 (166)
12.Affirmative Instrument—The following instrument was laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table:

Draft Terrorism Act 2000 (Code of Practice on Video Recording of Interviews) (Northern Ireland) Order 2003, laid under the Terrorism Act 2000.

13.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Social Security (Overlapping Benefits) Amendment Regulations 2003, laid under the Social Security Administration Act 1992;
 (136)
2.Gaming (Variation of Monetary Limits) Order (Northern Ireland) 2003, laid under the Northern Ireland Act 2000;
 (—)
3. (i)Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 (Failure to Disclose Money Laundering: Specified Training) Order 2003—(171)
(ii)Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 (References to Financial Investigators) Order 2003(172)
(iii)Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 (Crown Servants) Regulations 2003—(173)
(iv)Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 (Application of Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 and Police and Criminal Evidence (Northern Ireland) Order 1989) Order 2003—(174)
(v)Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 (Financial Threshold for Civil Recovery) Order 2003—(175)
 laid under the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002.
4.Adoption (Amendment) Rules 2003, laid under the Adoption Act 1976;
 (183)
5.Family Proceedings (Amendment) Rules 2003, laid under the Matrimonial and Family Proceedings Act 1984;
 (184)
6.Non-Contentious Probate (Amendment) Rules 2003, laid under the Supreme Court Act 1981.
 (185)
14.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Account for 2001–02 of the Public Income and Expenditure of Northern Ireland, laid under the Northern Ireland Act 2000 (Prescribed Documents) Order 2002;
2.Accounts for 2001–02 of the Parliamentary Contributory Pension Fund, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Parliamentary and Other Pensions Act 1972;
3.Accounts for 2001–02 of the following Education Action Zones, together with the Reports of the Comptroller and Auditor General:
(i)Derbyshire North East Coalfields—
(ii)Clacton and Harwich—
 laid under the School Standards and Framework Act 1998.

Select Committee Reports

15.European Union—The 6th Report from the Select Committee, The Future Status of the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights, was made; it was ordered that the Report be printed, together with the Minutes of Evidence. (HL Paper 48)

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16.Procedure of the House—The 2nd Report from the Select Committee was made and ordered to be printed (see appendix). (HL Paper 49)
17.Human Rights—The 4th Report from the Joint Committee, Scrutiny of Bills: Further Progress Report, was made and ordered to be printed. (HL Paper 50)

Public Business

18.Waste and Emissions Trading Bill [HL]—The report was received; amendments were moved and (by leave of the House) withdrawn; amendments were agreed to; it was ordered that the bill be printed as amended. (HL Bill 28)
19.Crime (International Co-operation) Bill [HL]—The bill was reported from the Grand Committee with amendments; it was ordered that the bill be printed as amended. (HL Bill 27)
20.Disabled children—The Baroness Massey of Darwen asked Her Majesty’s Government how they will respond to the needs of families with disabled children as highlighted in the Barnado’s report Still missing out? ; after debate, the question was answered by the Baroness Andrews.

The House was adjourned at five minutes past nine o’clock
till tomorrow, half-past two o’clock.


APPENDIX 1

PROCEEDINGS OF THE GRAND COMMITTEE (IN COMMITTEE ROOMS 3A AND 4B)

The Committee met at half-past three o’clock.

Crime (International Co-operation) Bill [HL]—The bill was further considered in the Grand Committee; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; amendments were agreed to; it was ordered that the bill be reported with amendments.

The Committee was adjourned at eleven minutes past six o’clock.


APPENDIX 2

Second Report from the Select Committee

on Procedure of the House


MONDAY 3rd FEBRUARY 2003


By the Select Committee on Procedure of the House

Ordered to Report:

Proposal for a Northern Ireland Orders Grand Committee

The Committee has received from the Leader of the House a proposal for the establishment of a Committee to consider Northern Ireland Orders which come before the House while devolved government in Northern Ireland is suspended. The Leader’s memorandum is printed as an Annex to this Report.

The Committee commends this proposal to the House. We propose that the Committee should be entitled the Northern Ireland Orders Grand Committee to reflect the fact that its procedures will be similar to those of other Grand Committees. As the Committee will have no fixed membership, there need be no formal motion of appointment and the House’s agreement to this Report will provide authority for motions to be moved to apply the new procedure to specific orders.

ANNEX

Northern Ireland Orders: memorandum by the Leader of the House

In the run-up to Christmas, Lords interested in Northern Ireland affairs complained that Orders in Council under paragraph 1 of the Schedule to the Northern Ireland Act 2000 were receiving inadequate scrutiny in the Lords. These are the Orders which do the work of NI Assembly Bills while the Assembly

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is suspended. I agreed at the Despatch Box on 16 December to the proposition that “the usual channels should look at this matter with a degree of urgency”.

Having consulted the usual channels and other interested members, I now invite the Procedure Committee to recommend the creation of a “Northern Ireland Orders Committee”.

The Committee would be of open membership, like a Grand Committee. If it was considered that a particular Order warranted its attention, then following discussion in the usual channels I would move a formal motion referring the Order to the Committee. The Committee would, I hope, be able to meet at any convenient time and at fairly short notice. I accept that resource constraints apply, and in particular that it should not meet at the same time as a Grand Committee. It would meet in the Moses Room if this was available.

The Committee’s proceedings would be the same as in Grand Committee, with the Chairman of Committees or a Deputy in the Chair, a Minister speaking for the Government, and a section in Hansard. Its only business would be “to consider the So-and-So Order”, and its report would say only that it had done so.

The motion to approve the Order would be taken on the Floor of the House, as at present. There would be no bar on further debate at this stage (and if necessary a division); but in most cases an Order considered in Committee might be expected to be approved without further extensive debate.

It is important that this initiative is not seen in any way as a signal for long-term suspension of the Assembly. By definition, Orders of this type are made only when the Assembly is suspended. When the Assembly is restored, which the Government hope will be soon, the new procedure would lapse.

WILLIAMS OF MOSTYN

22 January 2003