House of Lords Journal 236 (Session 2002-03)


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Thursday 30 January 2003

The House met at eleven o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Alderdice, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Ampthill, L.
Andrews, B.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashdown of Norton-sub-Hamdon, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Bagri, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bhatia, L.
Biffen, L.
Billingham, B.
Bingham of Cornhill, L.
Birt, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Boothroyd, B.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bragg, L.
Bramall, L.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Brightman, L.
Brittan of Spennithorne, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butterworth, L.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carrington, L.
Carter, L.
Chalfont, L.
Chalker of Wallasey, B.
Chandos, V.
Chelmsford, Bp.
Chester, Bp.
Chorley, L.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke Hampstead, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cobbold, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Colwyn, L.
Cooke of Islandreagh, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Courtown, E.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Crathorne, L.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Dahrendorf, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Denham, L.
Derby, Bp.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.

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Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Dundee, E.
Eatwell, L.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elder, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Ezra, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Falkender, B.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Feldman, L.
Ferrers, E.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Fowler, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Gavron, L.
Geraint, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gilbert, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Golding, B.
Goldsmith, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Greaves, L.
Greenway, L.
Grenfell, L.
Grocott, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hannay of Chiswick, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Hayman, B.
Henley, L.
Hereford, Bp.
Higgins, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Hobhouse of Woodborough, L.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Hooson, L.
Hope of Craighead, L.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hussey of North Bradley, L.
Hutton, L.
Hylton, L.
Inge, L.
Inglewood, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jeger, B.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Joffe, L.
Jones, L.
Jopling, L.
Jordan, L.
Kimball, L.
King of Bridgwater, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kirkham, L.
Laird, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Lawson of Blaby, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Levy, L.
Lipsey, L.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
May of Oxford, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Methuen, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Mishcon, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montrose, D.
Moore of Wolvercote, L.
Morgan, L.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Moser, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moynihan, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Naseby, L.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicholls of Birkenhead, L.
Nicol, B.
Noakes, B.
Northbourne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Orme, L.
Ouseley, L.
Owen, L.
Oxburgh, L.
Palmer, L.
Parekh, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patel, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Patten, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Pendry, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Perry of Walton, L.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Plumb, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Powell of Bayswater, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Quirk, L.
Radice, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Richard, L.
Rix, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogers of Riverside, L.
Roll of Ipsden, L.
Roper, L.
Rotherwick, L.

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Sainsbury of Turville, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandberg, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Selsdon, L.
Sewel, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Sheldon, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Slim, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Southwark, Bp.
Stallard, L.
Stern, B.
Stewartby, L.
Steyn, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L.
Sutherland of Houndwood, L.
Swinfen, L.
Tanlaw, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Thatcher, B.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Tugendhat, L.
Uddin, B.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Walker of Gestingthorpe, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.
Warner, L.
Warnock, B.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Weatherill, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilcox, B.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Wilson of Tillyorn, L.
Windlesham, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Hereford.

Papers

1.Instrument withdrawn—The following instrument, laid before the House on 23rd January, was withdrawn:

Draft Terrorism Act 2000 (Code of Practice on Video Recording of Interviews) (Northern Ireland) Order 2003.

2.Affirmative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Draft National Assembly for Wales (Representation of the People) Order 2003, laid under the Government of Wales Act 1998;
2.Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (Codes of Practice) (Codes B to E) Order 2003, laid under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984, together with an Explanatory Memorandum.
3.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Legal Aid (Remuneration of Solicitors and Counsel in County Court Proceedings) (Amendment) Order (Northern Ireland) 2003, laid under the Legal Aid, Advice and Assistance (Northern Ireland) Order 1981;
 (—)
2.Intercountry Adoption (Hague Convention) Regulations 2003, laid under the Adoption Act 1976;
 (118)
3.Police Act 1997 (Criminal Records) (Amendment No. 2) Regulations 2003, laid under the Police Act 1997.
 (137)
4.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Draft Code of Practice for the Video Recording with Sound of Police Interviews of persons detained under the Terrorism Act 2000, laid under the Northern Ireland Act 2000;
2.Report by the Police Complaints Authority on Shootings by Police in England and Wales from 1998 to 2001, laid under the Police Act 1996;
3.Report on the number of Notices, Directions and Enforcement Notices served in 2002 under the Channel Tunnel (Security) Order 1994, laid under that Order;
4.Report on the number of Notices, Directions and Enforcement Notices served in 2002 under the Aviation and Maritime Security Act 1990, laid under that Act;
5.Report on the number of Notices, Directions and Enforcement Notices served in 2002 under the Aviation Security Act 1982 as amended by the Aviation and Maritime Security

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 Act 1990 and the Anti–Terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001, laid under the Aviation Security Act 1982.

Public Business

5.Arms Control and Disarmament (Inspections) Bill [HL]—The bill was read a third time and passed and sent to the Commons.
6.National Minimum Wage (Enforcement Notices) Bill [HL]—The bill was read a third time; amendments were agreed to; a privilege amendment was agreed to; then the bill was passed and sent to the Commons.
7.Police (Northern Ireland) Bill [HL]—The bill was read a third time; amendments were agreed to; an amendment was disagreed to (see division list); amendments were moved and (by leave of the House) withdrawn; a privilege amendment was agreed to; then the bill was passed and sent to the Commons.

The House was adjourned during pleasure.
The House was resumed.

Judicial Business

8.Regina v. H (Appellant) (On Appeal from the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division))—It was moved by the Lord Bingham of Cornhill, That the 7th Report from the Appellate Committee be agreed to; the motion was agreed to. It was ordered and adjudged that the Order of the Court of Appeal of 5th October 2001 be affirmed and the appeal dismissed; and that the general opening certified question be answered in the affirmative and questions (i) and (ii) in the negative. [2003] UKHL 1
9.In re Kanaris (FC) (Respondent) (application for a writ of Habeas Corpus) (On Appeal from the Administrative Court of the Queen’s Bench Division of Her Majesty’s High Court of Justice)—It was moved by the Lord Nicholls of Birkenhead, That the 8th Report from the Appellate Committee be agreed to; the motion was agreed to. It was ordered and adjudged that the appeal of the Crown Prosecution Service be allowed; that it be declared that “a preparatory hearing did take place in respect of the respondent on 5th October 2001”; that the Order of Mr Justice Andrew Smith of 9th January 2002 be set aside, save that the question whether the respondent should continue to be released on bail be remitted to Her Majesty’s High Court of Justice; and that there be no order as to costs before Mr Justice Andrew Smith and before this House, save that the costs of the respondent before this House be taxed in accordance with section 11 of the Access to Justice Act 1999. [2003] UKHL 2
10.Regina v. Connor and another (Appellants) (On Appeal from the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division))—
11.Regina v. Mirza (Appellant) (On Appeal from the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division))—

The petition of the appellants praying that the appeals be conjoined; that they be allowed to lodge separate statements, one appendix and separate cases and that the Appellants and Respondents be separately represented in respect of the two appeals (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed.

The House was adjourned during pleasure.
The House was resumed.

Public Business

12.Mergers (EUC Report)—It was moved by the Lord Grenfell that this House takes note of the Report of the European Union Committee on the Review of EC Merger Regulation (32nd Report, HL Paper 165, Session 2001–02); after debate, the motion was agreed to.
13.Regulatory Reform (Credit Unions) Order 2003—It was moved by the Lord McIntosh of Haringey that the draft Regulatory Reform Order laid before the House on 16th December 2002 be approved; after debate, the motion was agreed to.

The House was adjourned at half-past five o’clock
to Monday next, half-past two o’clock.


POLICE (NORTHERN IRELAND) BILL [HL]

It was moved by the Lord Maginnis of Drumglass to leave out Clause 10; which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided:

Contents..............100

Not-Contents..............122

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CONTENTS

Aberdare, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Biffen, L.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Boothroyd, B.
Bowness, L.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Burnham, L.
Buscombe, B.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carrington, L.
Chalker of Wallasey, B.
Cooke of Islandreagh, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L. [Teller]
Craig of Radley, L.
Crathorne, L.
Crickhowell, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Denham, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Dundee, E.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Glentoran, L.
Greenway, L.
Hanham, B.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Hussey of North Bradley, L.
Inge, L.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jopling, L.
Kimball, L.
King of Bridgwater, L.
Kirkham, L.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Liverpool, E.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L. [Teller]
Marlesford, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Montrose, D.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Noakes, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patten, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Plumb, L.
Powell of Bayswater, L.
Rawlings, B.
Rees, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Seccombe, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Slim, V.
Strange, B.
Thatcher, B.
Trefgarne, L.
Tugendhat, L.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Walpole, L.
Weatherill, L.
Wilcox, B.
Windlesham, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Barnett, L.
Billingham, B.
Blackstone, B.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bragg, L.
Brennan, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Burlison, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carter, L.
Chester, Bp.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Crawley, B.
Dahrendorf, L.
David, B.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Desai, L.
Dixon, L.
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Gavron, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Golding, B.
Goldsmith, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Greaves, L.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hylton, L.
Jones, L.
Jordan, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lipsey, L.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller]
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Maddock, B.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marsh, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Methuen, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Morgan, L.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Nicol, B.
Northover, B.
Orme, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Pendry, L.
Perry of Walton, L.
Plant of Highfield, L.

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Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Radice, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rea, L.
Richard, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogers of Riverside, L.
Roper, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Stern, B.
Strabolgi, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
(Lord Privy Seal)
Williamson of Horton, L.