House of Lords Journal 236 (Session 2002-03)


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Monday 20 January 2003

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Alderdice, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Andrews, B.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bhatia, L.
Billingham, B.
Blackstone, B.
Blatch, B.
Bledisloe, V.
Boothroyd, B.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bragg, L.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Brightman, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butterworth, L.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carey of Clifton, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carter, L.
Chadlington, L.
Chalker of Wallasey, B.
Chan, L.
Chandos, V.
Chorley, L.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Condon, L.
Cooke of Thorndon, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Courtown, E.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Crickhowell, L.
Cuckney, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Denham, L.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Eatwell, L.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Elder, L.
Elis-Thomas, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Ezra, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Feldman, L.
Filkin, L.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Fitt, L.

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Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Fowler, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freeman, L.
Freyberg, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Gavron, L.
Geddes, L.
Geraint, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gilbert, L.
Gilmour of Craigmillar, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Golding, B.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goschen, V.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greengross, B.
Greenway, L.
Gregson, L.
Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Grocott, L.
Hanham, B.
Hannay of Chiswick, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Hayman, B.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Hooson, L.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Hussey of North Bradley, L.
Inge, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jeger, B.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jones, L.
Jopling, L.
Kimball, L.
King of Bridgwater, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Laird, L.
Laming, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Levy, L.
Lindsay, E.
Lipsey, L.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mallalieu, B.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Mishcon, L.
Mitchell, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montrose, D.
Moran, L.
Morgan, L.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Newby, L.
Noakes, B.
Northover, B.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Orme, L.
Ouseley, L.
Palmer, L.
Parekh, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Patten, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Pendry, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Perry of Walton, L.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Plumb, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prashar, B.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Quirk, L.
Radice, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Renwick of Clifton, L.
Richard, L.
Rix, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Roll of Ipsden, L.
Roper, L.
Rosslyn, E.
Rotherwick, L.
Russell-Johnston, L.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandberg, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Seccombe, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Sheldon, L.
Shrewsbury, E.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Slim, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Southwark, Bp.
Stallard, L.
Stern, B.
Stewartby, L.
Stodart of Leaston, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Tanlaw, L.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Tenby, V.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Turnberg, L.
Uddin, B.
Varley, L.

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Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Weatherill, L.
Whitaker, B.
Wigoder, L.
Wilcox, B.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Windlesham, L.
Winston, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Worcester, Bp.
Wright of Richmond, L.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Southwark.

Judicial Business

1.Beynon and Partners (Respondents) v. Commissioners of Customs and Excise (Petitioners)—The petition of the Commissioners of Customs and Excise praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee.
2.Criterion Properties plc (Petitioners) v. Stratford UK Properties llc (Respondents) and others—The petition of Criterion Properties plc praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee (lodged 17th January).
3.Raja (administratrix of the estate of Mohammed Sabir Raja (deceased)) (Petitioner) v. Austin Gray (a firm) (Respondents)—The petition of Starbibi Raja praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee.
4.Jerome (Petitioner) v. Kelly (Her Majesty’s Inspector of Taxes) (Respondent)—The petition of Michael Jerome praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee.
5.Commissioners of Inland Revenue (Petitioners) v. John Lewis Properties plc (Respondents)—The petition of the Commissioners of Inland Revenue praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee.
6.Regina v. Webber (Petitioner)—The petition of Robert Webber, praying for an extension of time within which the petition may be lodged and for leave to appeal in accordance with the Criminal Appeal Act 1968 was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee.
7.In re Guisto (FC) (Appellant) (application for a writ of Habeas Corpus) (On Appeal from a Divisional Court of the Queen’s Bench Division)—The appeal was set down for hearing and referred to an Appellate Committee.
8.Thomson (Respondent) v. Kvaerner Govan Limited (Appellants) (Scotland)—The petition of the appellants praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 30th January (the agents for the respondent consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed (lodged 6th January).
9.Eastwood and another (Appellants) v. Magnox Electric plc (Respondents)—It was ordered that the appeal be dismissed in accordance with Standing Order V, the appellants having failed to give security for costs by 14th January.
10.Regina v. Skuse (Petitioner)—Upon application by the petitioner (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto), it was ordered that the petition be withdrawn and that there be no order as to costs.

Papers

11.Command Paper—The following paper was presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:

Animals—Government Response to the Report of the House of Lords Select Committee on Animals in Scientific Procedures, Session 2001-02.

(5729)

12.Statutory Instruments (Standing Order 71)—The following negative instruments, having been laid before the House on 17th January, were ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Health and Social Care Act 2001 (Isles of Scilly) Order 2003, laid under the Health and Social Care Act 2001;
 (49)
2.National Health Service Reform and Health Care Professions Act 2002 (Isles of Scilly) Order 2003, laid under the National Health Service Reform and Health Care Professions Act 2002.
 (50)
13.Affirmative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Draft Industrial Training Levy (Construction Board) Order 2003, laid under the Industrial Training Act 1982;
2.Draft Industrial Training Levy (Engineering Construction Board) Order 2003, laid under

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  the Industrial Training Act 1982;
3.Draft Housing (Northern Ireland) Order 2003, laid under the Northern Ireland Act 2000, together with an Explanatory Memorandum;
4.Draft Northern Ireland Arms Decommissioning Act 1997 (Amnesty Period) Order 2003, laid under the Northern Ireland Arms Decommissioning Act 1997, together with an Explanatory Memorandum.
14.Negative Instrument—The following instrument was laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:

Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit (General) Amendment Regulations 2003, laid under the Social Security Administration Act 1992.

(48)

15.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Accounts for 2000–2001 of the Gloucester Education Action Zone, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the School Standards and Framework Act 1998;
2.Accounts for 2001–2002 of the following Education Action Zones, together with the Reports of the Comptroller and Auditor General:
(i) Bedford—
(ii) Blackburn with Darwen—
(iii) Derby North East—
(iv) Downham and Bellingham—
(v) Gloucester—
(vi) Leicester—
(vii) Nottingham—
(viii) Southend—
(ix) Telford and Wrekin—
 laid under the School Standards and Framework Act 1998;
3.Accounts for the year ended 31st July 2002 of the General Chiropractic Council, laid under the Chiropractors Act 1994.

Public Business

16.Police (Northern Ireland) Bill [HL]—It was moved by the Lord Privy Seal (Lord Williams of Mostyn) that the amendments for the Report stage be marshalled and considered in the following order:
Clauses 1 to 20
Schedule 1
Clause 21
Schedule 2
Clauses 22 to 26
Schedule 3
Clauses 27 and 28;

the motion was agreed to.

17.Licensing Bill [HL]—The House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; amendments were agreed to; the House was resumed and the bill was reported with amendments; it was ordered that the bill be printed as amended. (HL Bill 21)
18.Courts Bill [HL]—The House resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; an amendment was moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; an amendment was disagreed to (see division list); the House was resumed.
19.Charities—The Lord Patten asked Her Majesty’s Government whether they intend to create a charities ombudsman; after debate, the question was answered by the Lord Filkin.
20.Courts Bill [HL]—The House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; the House was resumed after amendment 6.

The House was adjourned at a quarter past ten o’clock
till tomorrow, half-past two o’clock.

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COURTS BILL [HL]

It was moved by the Baroness Anelay of St Johns, in Clause 1, page 1, line 9, at end to insert “in both rural and urban areas”; which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the Committee divided:

Contents..............41

Not-Contents..............55

CONTENTS

Anely of St Johns, B.
Astor of Hever, L.
Barker, B.
Blatch, B.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Chalker of Wallasey, B.
Cope of Berkeley, L. [Teller]
Craigavon, V.
Crickhowell, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Elis-Thomas, L.
Fookes, B.
Goodhart, L.
Goschen, V.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Kimball, L.
King of Bridgwater, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McNally, L.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Patten, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Sandberg, L.
Seccombe, B. [Teller]
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Stodart of Leaston, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Waddington, L.
Windlesham, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Ahmed, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Bhatia, L.
Blackstone, B.
Borrie, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Carter, L.
Chandos, V.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Eatwell, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Filkin, L.
Gale, B.
Gavron, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Golding, B.
Goudie, B.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Jones, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Layard, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller]
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mallalieu, B.
Morgan, L.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Varley, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Winston, L.