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Lord Donaldson of Lymington: My Lords, perhaps I may say one word, and say it very briefly. All this discussion about physical protection for the jury overlooks the bribery element.

Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, the debate has now concluded and we should now proceed to a decision on the amendment.

Lord Hunt of Wirral: My Lords, I join with the Minister in paying tribute to our judiciary. Such

19 Nov 2003 : Column 1970

support comes from all sides of the House. That is why we have tabled a whole series of amendments to the Bill which are designed to uphold the independence of the judiciary in which we have such confidence.

We have debated the issue. I hope that there will be constructive engagement. I believe that I speak for all noble Lords when I say that we want to stamp out jury intimidation—let us unite; let us have constructive engagement—but, as yet, the Government's new clauses, which appeared for the first time yesterday, have not got it right. I wish to test the opinion of the House.

5.15 p.m.

On Question, Whether the said amendment (No. 34C) shall be agreed to?

Their Lordships divided: Contents, 187; Not-Contents, 135.

Division No. 3

CONTENTS

Addington, L.
Alderdice, L.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Arran, E.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Barker, B.
Biffen, L.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Boothroyd, B.
Bowness, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Buscombe, B.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Carlile of Berriew, L.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Chadlington, L.
Chalfont, L.
Chalker of Wallasey, B.
Clement-Jones, L.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L. [Teller]
Crathorne, L.
Crickhowell, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Dahrendorf, L.
Denham, L.
Dholakia, L. [Teller]
Dixon-Smith, L.
Dundee, E.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Ezra, L.
Falkland, V.
Feldman, L.
Ferrers, E.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Fowler, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freeman, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Geraint, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goodhart, L.
Goschen, V.
Greaves, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Harris of Peckham, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Hayhoe, L.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Hogg, B.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Home, E.
Hooson, L.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Jacobs, L.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jopling, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kimball, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kirkham, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Laing of Dunphail, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lawson of Blaby, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Lindsay, E.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Liverpool, Bp.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Lucas, L.
Lyell, L.
McAlpine of West Green, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
MacLaurin of Knebworth, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mallalieu, B.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Michie of Gallanach, B.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montrose, D.
Moore of Lower Marsh, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Naseby, L.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Noakes, B.
Northesk, E.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
O'Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Parkinson, L.
Peel, E.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Plumb, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Prashar, B.
Prior, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Richardson of Calow, B.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogan, L.
Roper, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Russell, E.
Russell-Johnston, L.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandberg, L.
Sanderson of Bowden, L.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Selsdon, L.
Sharman, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Tebbit, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Tugendhat, L.
Ullswater, V.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Walmsley, B.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Wilcox, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.

NOT-CONTENTS

Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Alli, L.
Amos, B. (Lord President)
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Bach, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Billingham, B.
Blackstone, B.
Bledisloe, V.
Borrie, L.
Bragg, L.
Brett, L.
Bridges, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Burlison, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carter, L.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Cobbold, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Craig of Radley, L.
Crawley, B.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L. [Teller]
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Desai, L.
Dixon, L.
Donaldson of Lymington, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L. (Lord Chancellor)
Falkender, B.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Gale, B.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gilbert, L.
Golding, B.
Goldsmith, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Greenway, L.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harrison, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayman, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
Islwyn, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jones, L.
Jordan, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Listowel, E.
Lloyd of Berwick, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Marsh, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Mishcon, L.
Mitchell, L.
Monson, L.
Morgan of Huyton, B.
Moser, L.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Oxburgh, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Pendry, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Radice, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Roll of Ipsden, L.
Rooker, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Stallard, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strange, B.
Sutherland of Houndwood, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Warner, L.
Warnock, B.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Weatherill, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.

Resolved in the affirmative, and amendment agreed to accordingly.

19 Nov 2003 : Column 1972

Motion, as amended, agreed to.

5.25 p.m.

LORDS AMENDMENT

35Clause 44, Leave out Clause 44 The Commons disagree to this amendment for the following reason—


35ABecause it is necessary to make provision about the procedure for applications for trials to be conducted without a jury.

Baroness Scotland of Asthal: My Lords, I beg to move that the House do not insist on its Amendment No. 35, to which the Commons have disagreed for their reason numbered 35A. I have spoken to this amendment with Amendment No. 34.

Moved, That the House do not insist on its Amendment No. 35 to which the Commons have disagreed for their reason numbered 35A.—(Baroness Scotland of Asthal.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.


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