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Lord Carlile of Berriew: I would like to comment on the transport to courts of women prisoners. Those of us who spend a lot of time in the criminal courts have our own catalogue of horror stories about prison transport, which is a particular problem with women prisoners. Any additional money to ensure a better operation of transport to and from courts for women prisoners is very welcome, but the money on its own will not solve the problem.

Those of us who have witnessed some of the events that I am describing know that turning the money into an efficient organisation of transport of prisoners to court may be a greater task than at first sight one might imagine. I cite the example of Styal prison in Cheshire: a prison that looks after its inmates very well. However, the transport from Styal to court is a very big problem for courts throughout the north-west and in North Wales. I know of a woman prisoner who was charged with and later acquitted of murder who was brought to court in Warrington every day, suffering quite ridiculously long journeys en route because other people had to be dropped off at magistrates' courts on the way. On one occasion, the return journey from court, which should have taken about 30 minutes, was never completed. She was taken back to a police station, where she spent the night. A police constable in the station was repeatedly abusive to her during the night, taunting her for being a killer—I emphasise the fact that she was acquitted later. When she went to court, a senior judge—a presiding judge of the Wales and Chester circuit—when told what had happened, said, "We will not sit in the morning. She must be given time to sleep in the court cells".

The cost of all that to the court system was something like #5,000 or #6,000. We hope that, when more money is provided for the transport of female prisoners, it can be translated into better management of the transportation system. Most judges who deal with women prisoners—perhaps all prisoners—in the Crown Court sometimes despair at the delays that are caused by the prison transport system. It is not good in almost every part of the country.

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Lord Renton: In Amendment No. 177KC, we have the first reference to "custody plus orders". They are referred to numerous times with regard to Scotland and Northern Ireland and with regard to the general provisions set out in the new schedule after Schedule 9.

I have looked hard and as diligently as I can for the definition of a custody plus order. There must be one somewhere. Will the noble Baroness tell us where we would find such a definition? I suggest that, if she cannot, if there is no definition, a definition should be inserted into the Bill on Report.

Baroness Scotland of Asthal: I am just looking for it. I shall write to the noble Lord. I can see so many references to custody plus. I shall have to look quickly at the interpretation schedule, and I shall do that the moment I sit down. I hope that the noble Lord will be content with that.

To the noble Lord, Lord Carlile of Berriew, I say that we recognise the difficulties that have been experienced with travel. One of the relevant issues is how we get correct, properly targeted information about precisely when individual prisoners will be needed and in what place. I know that that has been a difficulty for a long time. The Committee will know that we are investing more than #1 billion in criminal justice IT. I hope that the noble Lord will be pleased to know that, soon, we will have secure e-mail that can be used by courts, prosecutors, prisons and others to communicate more efficiently with one another on timings.

Lord Carlile of Berriew: Does the noble Baroness realise how far we have to go to reach that laudable conclusion? I know of a recent case in which the prison van bringing a prisoner to court was telephoned by the court in order to ascertain the whereabouts of the prisoner, who was late by some considerable time. Such was the electronic potential of the prison van that, in order for the mobile telephone to be answered, the van had to pull onto the hard shoulder of the motorway, and the telephone had to be transferred from one part of the van to the other. That is hardly the modern communications age.

Baroness Scotland of Asthal: Obviously, I cannot comment on that or many of the other examples. All I can say is that we understand the need for—

Lord Bassam of Brighton: Health and safety.

Baroness Scotland of Asthal: My noble friend says, "health and safety". We understand the need for better communication. I congratulate all the people who have worked with such diligence on criminal justice IT. Practitioners in the field have longed for secure e-mail for as long as I can remember. I am sure that a great "Hallelujah" will be said, when it finally arrives.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

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Baroness Scotland of Asthal moved Amendment No. 177KB:


    Page 106, leave out lines 17 to 21 and insert—


"(4A) For the purposes of this section a person shall also be deemed to be unlawfully at large if, having being temporarily released in pursuance of an intermittent custody order made under section 176 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003, he remains at large at a time when, by reason of the expiry of the period for which he was temporarily released, he is liable to be detained in pursuance of his sentence."

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Clause 179, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 180 agreed to.

9.15 p.m.

Baroness Scotland of Asthal moved Amendment No. 177KC:


    After Clause 180, insert the following new clause—


"TRANSFER OF CUSTODY PLUS ORDERS AND INTERMITTENT CUSTODY ORDERS TO SCOTLAND OR NORTHERN IRELAND
Schedule (Transfer of custody plus orders and intermittent custody orders to Scotland or Northern Ireland) shall have effect."

The noble Baroness said: Amendments Nos. 177KC, 252CA, 179ZAA, 226A, 227ZD, 243A, 243B, 244AC, 246ZA and 246AB amend current legislation so that arrangements for transferring prisoners apply to the new sentencing framework. Transfers of custody plus and intermittent custody, which can transfer once intermittent custodial periods have been served, require a schedule as this sentence is unique. The schedule is based on that for transferring suspended sentence orders.

The other amendments are to Schedule 1 to the Crime (Sentences) Act 1997 where current arrangements are set out. These amendments enable all other custodial sentences of a determinant length to transfer. I could amplify each of the amendments, but I hope that suffices. If there are any particular matters that Members of the Committee wish to raise in respect of any of the amendments, I shall be happy to deal with them. I beg to move.

Lord Renton: I owe the noble Baroness an apology. I was premature in referring to this new clause. She addressed the point at the time. I do not expect any further explanation from her.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Schedule 9 [Revocation or amendment of custody plus orders and amendment of intermittent custody orders]:

Baroness Scotland of Asthal moved Amendment No. 178:


    Page 239, line 8, after "of" insert "the Secretary of State or"

The noble Baroness said: This amendment applies to custodial sentences of under 12 months; that is, custody plus and intermittent custody, which will have licence conditions set by the court. However, there may be situations in which events occur in an offender's life during his stay in prison such that a further licence condition is necessary for public protection. Custody plus offenders can be in prison for up to three months. Such events may occur within that

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time frame. For example, the offender's relationship might break down and he may make threats towards his partner. An exclusion requirement may be necessary in this case to ensure the safety of the partner.

Amendments Nos. 206 to 208 ensure that the Secretary of State can add a licence condition to sentences of custody plus and intermittent custody for the purpose of public protection only. The Secretary of State would be able to choose only from the list of licence conditions available to the court. The conditions most likely to be used are exclusion, curfew and prohibited activity.

Amendments Nos. 205A and 208A clarify what is to happen to the court-set licence conditions of custody plus and intermittent custody sentences once the offender has been recalled to prison. Amendment No. 207A is a drafting clarification. It is intended to make it clear that a curfew condition on an intermittent custody licence cannot be in force at the same time as a curfew condition on an HDC licence given to intermittent custody offenders. I beg to move.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Baroness Scotland of Asthal moved Amendment No. 179ZA:


    Page 239, line 44, after "offender" insert ", the Secretary of State"

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Schedule 9, as amended, agreed to.

Baroness Scotland of Asthal moved Amendment No. 179ZAA:


    After Schedule 9, insert the following new schedule—

"TRANSFER OF CUSTODY PLUS ORDERS AND INTERMITTENT CUSTODY ORDERS TO SCOTLAND OR NORTHERN IRELAND
PART 1
INTRODUCTORY

1 In this Schedule—
(a) "the 1997 Act" means the Crime (Sentences) Act 1997 (c. 43), and
(b) any reference to a requirement being imposed by, or included in a custody plus order or intermittent custody order is a reference to compliance with the requirement being required by the order to be a condition of a licence.
PART 2
SCOTLAND

2 (1) Where the court making a custody plus order is satisfied that the offender resides in Scotland, or will reside there during the licence period, the court may, subject to sub-paragraph (2), impose requirements that are to be complied with in Scotland and require the offender's compliance with the order to be supervised in accordance with arrangements made by the local authority in Scotland in whose area he resides or will reside.
(2) The court may not make an order by virtue of this paragraph unless it appears to the court—
(a) in the case of an order imposing a requirement mentioned in sub-paragraph (3), that arrangements exist for persons to comply with such a requirement in the locality in Scotland in which the offender resides, or will be

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residing during the licence period, and that provision can be made for him to comply with the requirement under those arrangements, and
(b) in any case, that suitable arrangements for supervising his compliance with the order can be made by the local authority in whose area he resides, or will be residing during the licence period.
(3) The requirements referred to in sub-paragraph (2)(a) are—
(a) an unpaid work requirement,
(b) an activity requirement,
(c) a programme requirement, and
(d) an electronic monitoring requirement.
(4) If an order has been made in accordance with this paragraph in relation to an offender but—
(a) the Secretary of State decides not to make an order under paragraph 1 or 4 of Schedule 1 to the 1997 Act in relation to him, and
(b) the offender has not applied under paragraph 22 of this Schedule for the amendment of the custody plus order or intermittent custody order,
the Secretary of State must apply to the court under paragraph 22 of this Schedule for the amendment of the order.
3 Where—
(a) the appropriate court for the purposes of paragraph 4 of Schedule 9 (amendment by reason of change of residence) is satisfied that the offender in respect of whom a custody plus order or intermittent custody order is in force is residing in Scotland, or proposes to reside there during the licence period,
(b) the Secretary of State has made, or has indicated his willingness to make, an order under paragraph 1 or 4 of Schedule 1 to the 1997 Act in relation to the offender, and
(c) it appears to the court that the conditions in paragraph 2(2)(a) and (b) are satisfied,
the power of the court to amend the order under Schedule 9 includes power to amend it by requiring the requirements included in the order to be complied with in Scotland and the offender's compliance with them to be supervised in accordance with the arrangements referred to in paragraph 2(2)(b).
4 A court may not by virtue of paragraph 2 or 3 require an attendance centre requirement to be complied with in Scotland.
5 A custody plus order made in accordance with paragraph 2 or a custody plus order or intermittent order amended in accordance with paragraph 3 must—
(a) specify the local authority area in which the offender resides or will reside during the licence period, and
(b) require the local authority for that area to appoint or assign an officer who will be responsible for discharging in relation to him the functions conferred on responsible officers by Part 12 of this Act;
and section 207 (petty sessions area to be specified) does not apply in relation to an order so made or amended.
6 (1) Where a court makes a custody plus order in accordance with paragraph 2 or amends a custody plus order or intermittent custody order in accordance with paragraph 3, the court must provide the relevant documents to—
(a) the local authority for the area specified in the order, and
(b) the sheriff court having jurisdiction in the locality in which the offender resides or proposes to reside;
and paragraphs (b) to (d) of subsection (1) of section 210 (which relate to the provision of copies) do not apply in relation to an order so made or amended.

8 Oct 2003 : Column 389


(2) In this paragraph, "the relevant documents" means—
(a) a copy of the order as made or amended, and
(b) such other documents and information relating to the case as the court making or amending the order considers likely to be of assistance.
7 (1) In relation to the making of a custody plus order by virtue of paragraph 2, in relation to the amendment of a custody plus order or intermittent custody order by virtue of paragraph 3, and (except for the purposes of paragraph 22) in relation to an order so made or amended, Chapter 4 of Part 12 of this Act has effect subject to the following modifications.
(2) Any reference to the responsible officer has effect as a reference to the officer appointed or assigned under paragraph 5(b).
(3) The following provisions are omitted—
(a) subsection (7) of section 192 (activity requirement);
(b) subsection (7) of section 193 (programme requirement);
(c) subsection (4) of section 209 (availability of arrangements in local area).
(4) In section 206 (electronic monitoring requirement), in subsection (3), the words from "and" onwards are omitted.
8 In this Part of this Schedule "local authority" means a council constituted under section 2 of the Local Government etc. (Scotland) Act 1994 (c. 39) and any reference to the area of such an authority is a reference to the local government area within the meaning of that Act.
PART 3
NORTHERN IRELAND

9 (1) Where the court making a custody plus order is satisfied that the offender resides in Northern Ireland, or will reside there during the licence period, the court may, subject to sub-paragraph (2), impose requirements that are to be complied with in Northern Ireland and require the offender's compliance with the order to be supervised in accordance with arrangements made by the Probation Board for Northern Ireland.
(2) The court may not make an order by virtue of this paragraph unless it appears to the court—
(a) in the case of an order imposing a requirement mentioned in sub-paragraph (3), that arrangements exist for persons to comply with such a requirement in the petty sessions district in Northern Ireland in which the offender resides, or will be residing during the licence period, and that provision can be made for him to comply with the requirement under those arrangements, and
(b) in any case, that suitable arrangements for supervising his compliance with the order can be made by the Probation Board for Northern Ireland.
(3) The requirements referred to in sub-paragraph (1)(a) are—
(a) an unpaid work requirement,
(b) an activity requirement,
(c) a programme requirement,
(d) an attendance centre requirement, and
(e) an electronic monitoring requirement.
(4) If an order has been made in accordance with this paragraph in relation to an offender but—
(a) the Secretary of State decides not to make an order under paragraph 1 or 4 of Schedule 1 to the 1997 Act in relation to him, and
(b) the offender has not applied under paragraph 22 of this Schedule for the amendment of the custody plus order or intermittent custody order,
the Secretary of State must apply to the court under paragraph 22 for the amendment of the order.

8 Oct 2003 : Column 390


10 Where—
(a) the appropriate court for the purposes of paragraph 4 of Schedule 9 (amendment by reason of change of residence) is satisfied that the offender in respect of whom a custody plus order or intermittent custody order is in force is residing in Northern Ireland, or proposes to reside there during the licence period,
(b) the Secretary of State has made, or has indicated his willingness to make, an order under paragraph 1 or 4 of Schedule 1 to the 1997 Act in relation to the offender, and
(c) it appears to the court that the conditions in paragraph 9(2)(a) and (b) are satisfied,
the power of the court to amend the order under Schedule 9 includes power to amend it by requiring the requirements included in the order to be complied with in Northern Ireland and the offender's compliance with them to be supervised in accordance with the arrangements referred to in paragraph 9(2)(b).
11 A custody plus order made in accordance with paragraph 9 or a custody plus order or intermittent custody order amended in accordance with paragraph 10 must—
(a) specify the petty sessions district in Northern Ireland in which the offender resides or will reside during the licence period, and
(b) require the Probation Board for Northern Ireland to appoint or assign a probation officer who will be responsible for discharging in relation to him the functions conferred on responsible officers by Part 12 of this Act;
and section 207 (petty sessions area to be specified) does not apply in relation to an order so made or amended.
12 (1) Where a court makes a custody plus order in accordance with paragraph 9 or amends a custody plus order or intermittent custody order in accordance with paragraph 10, the court must provide the relevant documents to—
(a) the Probation Board for Northern Ireland, and
(b) the court of summary jurisdiction acting for the petty sessions district in which the offender resides or proposes to reside;
and paragraphs (b) to (d) of subsection (1) of section 210 (which relate to the provision of copies) do not apply in relation to an order so made or amended.
(2) In this paragraph, "the relevant documents" means—
(a) a copy of the order as made or amended, and
(b) such other documents and information relating to the case as the court making or amending the order considers likely to be of assistance.
13 (1) In relation to the making of a custody plus order by virtue of paragraph 9, in relation to the amendment of a custody plus order or intermittent custody order by virtue of paragraph 10, and (except for the purposes of paragraph 22) in relation to an order so made or amended, Chapter 4 of Part 12 of this Act has effect subject to the following modifications.
(2) Any reference to the responsible officer has effect as a reference to the probation officer appointed or assigned under paragraph 11(b).
(3) The following provisions are omitted—
(a) subsection (7) of section 192 (activity requirement);
(b) subsection (7) of section 193 (programme requirement);
(c) subsection (4) of section 209 (availability of arrangements in local area).
(4) In section 205 (attendance centre requirement), any reference to an attendance centre has effect as a reference to a day centre, as defined by paragraph 3(6) of Schedule 1 to the Criminal Justice (Northern Ireland) Order 1996 (S.I. 1996/3160 (N.I. 24).
(5) In section 206 (electronic monitoring requirement), in subsection (3), the words from "and" onwards are omitted.

8 Oct 2003 : Column 391

PART 4
GENERAL PROVISIONS

14 This Part of this Schedule applies at any time while a custody plus order made in accordance with paragraph 2 or 9 or amended in accordance with paragraph 3 or 10, or an intermittent custody order amended in accordance with paragraph 3 or 10, is in force in respect of an offender.
15 In this Part of this Schedule—
"home court" means—
(a) if the offender resides in Scotland, or will be residing there during the licence period, the sheriff court having jurisdiction in the locality in which the offender resides or proposes to reside, and
(b) if he resides in Northern Ireland, or will be residing there during the licence period, the court of summary jurisdiction acting for the petty sessions district in which he resides or proposes to reside;
"local authority" and "local authority area" are to be read in accordance with paragraph 8;
"original court" means the court in England and Wales which made or last amended the custody plus order or intermittent custody order;
"the relevant officer" means—
(a) where the order specifies a local authority area in Scotland, the local authority officer appointed or assigned under paragraph 5(b), and
(b) where the order specifies a local authority district in Northern Ireland, the probation officer appointed or assigned under paragraph 11(b).
16 (1) Where this Part of this Schedule applies, Schedule 9 has effect subject to the following modifications.
(2) Any reference to the responsible officer has effect as a reference to the relevant officer.
(3) Any reference to the appropriate court has effect as a reference to the original court.
(4) Where the order specifies a local authority area in Scotland—
(a) any reference to the petty sessions area concerned has effect as a reference to that local authority area, and
(b) any other reference to a petty sessions area has effect as a reference to a local authority area.
(5) Where the order specifies a petty sessions district in Northern Ireland—
(a) any reference to the petty sessions area concerned has effect as a reference to that petty sessions district, and
(b) any other reference to a petty sessions area has effect as a reference to a petty sessions district.
(6) Paragraph 9 is omitted.
17 (1) The home court may exercise any power under paragraph 4 or 5 of Schedule 9 (amendment of custody plus order or intermittent custody order) as if it were the original court.
(2) Subject to sub-paragraph (3), where the home court proposes to exercise the power conferred by paragraph 5 of Schedule 9, otherwise than on the application of the offender, the court—
(a) if it is in Scotland—
(i) must issue a citation requiring the offender to appear before it, and
(ii) if he does not appear in answer to the citation, may issue a warrant for the offender's arrest;
(b) if it is in Northern Ireland—
(i) must issue a summons requiring the offender to appear before it, and
(ii) if he does not appear in answer to the summons, may issue a warrant for the offender's arrest;
and paragraph 8 of Schedule 9 does not apply to the home court.

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(3) Sub-paragraph (2) does not apply to any order cancelling any requirement of a custody plus order or intermittent custody order.
(4) Where the home court is considering amending a custody plus or intermittent custody order, any reference in Chapter 4 of Part 12 of this Act to a local probation board has effect as a reference to a local authority in Scotland or, as the case may be, the Probation Board for Northern Ireland.
18 Where by virtue of paragraph 17 any application is made to the home court under paragraph 4 or 5 of Schedule 9, the home court may (instead of dealing with the application) require the offender to appear before the original court.
19 No court may amend or further amend a custody plus order or an intermittent custody order unless it appears to the court that the conditions in paragraph 2(2)(a) and (b) or, as the case may be, the conditions in paragraph 9(2)(a) and (b) are satisfied in relation to any requirement to be imposed; but this paragraph does not apply to any amendment made by virtue of paragraph 22(1).
20 The preceding paragraphs of this Schedule have effect in relation to any amendment of a custody plus or intermittent custody order by any court as they have effect in relation to the amendment of such an order by virtue of paragraph 3 or 10.
21 On the making of an order amending a custody plus order or intermittent custody order—
(a) the court must provide copies of the amending order to the offender and the relevant officer, and
(b) in the case of an amending order which substitutes a new local authority area or petty sessions district, paragraphs 5 and 6, or as the case may be paragraphs 11 and 12, have effect in relation to the order as they have effect in relation to an order made or amended in accordance with paragraph 2 or 3, or as the case may be, 9 or 10.
22 (1) Where—
(a) a custody plus order has been made in accordance with paragraph 2 or 9 or a custody plus or intermittent custody order has been amended in accordance with paragraph 3 or 10, but (in any of those cases) the Secretary of State has not made an order under paragraph 1 or 4 of Schedule 1 to the 1997 Act in relation to the offender, or
(b) the Secretary of State has made, or indicated his willingness to make, an order under paragraph 7(1) of Schedule 1 to the 1997 Act transferring the offender or his supervision back to England and Wales,
the court may, on the application of the offender or the Secretary of State, amend the custody plus order or intermittent custody order by requiring it to be complied with in England and Wales.
(2) In sub-paragraph (1) "the court", in a case falling within paragraph (a) of that sub-paragraph, means the original court.
(3) In a case where paragraph 2(4) or 9(4) requires the Secretary of State to apply under this paragraph, the court must make an amending order under this paragraph.
(4) Where under this paragraph the court amends a custody plus order or intermittent custody order which contains requirements which, in the opinion of the court, cannot be complied with in the petty sessions area in which the offender is residing or proposes to reside, the court must, in accordance with paragraph 5 of Schedule 9, either—
(a) cancel those requirements, or
(b) substitute for those requirements other requirements which can be complied with if the offender resides in that area.
(5) Where the court amends under this paragraph any custody plus order or intermittent custody order imposing a programme requirement the court must ensure that the requirement as amended specifies a programme which is available in the petty sessions area in England and Wales in which the offender is residing or proposes to reside.

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(6) The custody plus order or intermittent custody order as amended under this paragraph must specify the petty sessions area in which the offender resides or proposes to reside in the licence period.
(7) On the making under this paragraph of an order amending a custody plus order or intermittent custody order, the court must—
(a) provide copies of the amending order to the offender, the relevant officer and the local probation board acting for the new petty sessions area, and
(b) provide the magistrates' court acting for that area with a copy of the amending order and such other documents and information relating to the case as the home court considers likely to be of assistance to the court acting for that area in the exercise of its functions in relation to the order.
(8) Where an order has been amended under this paragraph, the preceding paragraphs of this Schedule shall cease to apply to the order as amended.
PART 5
SUPPLEMENTARY

23 Subsections (1) and (3) of section 245C of the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995 (c. 46) (provision of remote monitoring) have effect as if they included a reference to the electronic monitoring of the requirements of a custody plus order made in accordance with paragraph 2 or a custody plus order or intermittent custody order made in accordance with paragraph 3.
24 (1) Section 4 of the Summary Jurisdiction (Process) Act 1881 (c. 24) (which provides, among other things, for service in England and Wales of Scottish citations or warrants) applies to any citation or warrant issued under paragraph 17(2)(a) as it applies to a citation or warrant granted under section 134 of the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995 (c. 46).
(2) A summons issued by a court in Northern Ireland under paragraph 17(2)(b) may, in such circumstances as may be prescribed by rules of court, be served in England and Wales or Scotland."

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Clause 181 [Suspended sentences of imprisonment]:

[Amendment No. 179ZB not moved.]

Clause 181 agreed to.

Clause 182 [Imposition of requirements by suspended sentence order]:

[Amendments Nos. 179A and 179AA not moved.]

Clause 182 agreed to.

Clauses 183 to 185 agreed to.


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