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The Lord Bishop of Manchester: My Lords, the invitation still stands, and if the Minister wishes to respond to it, I am sure that your Lordships would be most interested to hear him.

Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, I am grateful for the renewal of the invitation, but I shall resist it for the second time. We are not seeking a synonym for "unsuitable"; we are seeking to ensure that the Bill does not offer a peg for lobby groups to demand inappropriate advertising bans. We are trying to ensure that the Bill has the breadth to create the opportunities for the codes to be specific but also to guard against mischievous activity in those terms.

My noble friend Lord Borrie said that the problem with the phrase "unsuitable" was that it would be unchallengeable in court, but that is not so. The specific regulatory rules must appear in any code that we produce under the legislation—a code developed after the fullest consultation. Those specific rules, rather than the breadth of the legislation, must be robust against the challenge, provided that the legislation has a proper basis for the development of the code.

I apologise to noble Lords for taking so long over my reply, but interesting points were raised and the Government are seeking to achieve a solution on the basis of consensus. However, we cannot accept the amendment and I ask my noble friend to consider withdrawing it.

Lord Gordon of Strathblane: My Lords, I have considered withdrawing, but I have rejected the option because there is still a gulf in this matter. The Minister's letter suggests that the Government want to continue the current situation. It is certainly true that my words do not appear in the 1990 Act, but neither does "unsuitable". It simply gives the ITC and the Radio Authority an obligation to draw up a code—it says nothing beyond that. My words have the advantage of being in the current codes. Therefore, although I fully concede that even my words are very subjective—after all, one could argue about the meaning of "harmful" and "offensive"—they are slightly more precise than either "unsuitable" or any other single portmanteau word designed to give Ofcom wider powers than the current codes give it.

My feeling is that the advertising industry has grown up with the term, "misleading, harmful or offensive", knows how to interpret it and how not to offend against it. More importantly, the regulators know how to apply it. Why trade certainty, which has produced good regulation and self-regulation in the past 20 years of the industry, for something that manifestly produces uncertainty?

I do not want to appear ungracious, and I am grateful to the Minister for his letter and his offer to talk, but I have a feeling that we are not going to get

2 Jul 2003 : Column 897

anywhere. We shall simply overcrowd Third Reading, which will already feature quite a few postponed Divisions. I wish to test the opinion of the House.

3.58 p.m.

On Question, Whether the said amendment (No. 182) shall be agreed to?

Their Lordships divided: Contents, 158; Not-Contents, 117.

Division No. 1

CONTENTS

Aberdare, L.
Addington, L.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Barker, B.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Biffen, L.
Blatch, B.
Borrie, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brittan of Spennithorne, L.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Buscombe, B.
Byford, B.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carrington, L.
Chalfont, L.
Chan, L.
Chorley, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Coe, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Crickhowell, L.
Cuckney, L.
Dahrendorf, L.
Denham, L.
Dholakia, L.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Ezra, L.
Falkland, V.
Ferrers, E.
Flather, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Glentoran, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L. [Teller]
Gray of Contin, L.
Greaves, L.
Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Hamwee, B.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Higgins, L.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hylton, L.
Jacobs, L.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jopling, L.
Kimball, L.
Kingsland, L.
Laird, L.
Laming, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Lindsay, E.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Liverpool, E.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Luke, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marsh, L.
Methuen, L.
Michie of Gallanach, B.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Mishcon, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Moser, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moynihan, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Naseby, L.
Newby, L.
Noakes, B.
Northesk, E.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
O'Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Palmer, L.
Patel, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Peel, E.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Portsmouth, Bp.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Redesdale, L.
Renton, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Russell, E.
Russell-Johnston, L.
Saatchi, L.
St John of Fawsley, L.
Sandberg, L.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Seccombe, B.
Sharman, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Southwark, Bp.
Stevens of Ludgate, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Taverne, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L. [Teller]
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Truro, Bp.
Ullswater, V.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Warnock, B.
Wigoder, L.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Ahmed, L.
Allen of Abbeydale, L.
Alli, L.
Ampthill, L.
Andrews, B.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Bach, L.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Bhatia, L.
Blackstone, B.
Bragg, L.
Brett, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carter, L.
Christopher, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Crawley, B.
David, B.
Davies of Oldham, L. [Teller]
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Desai, L.
Dixon, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dubs, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L. (Lord Chancellor)
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Golding, B.
Goldsmith, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harrison, L.
Haskel, L.
Haskins, L.
Hayman, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jeger, B.
Jones, L.
Judd, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lipsey, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Manchester, Bp.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Mitchell, L.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Parekh, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Pendry, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Rea, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Richard, L.
Rix, L.
Roll of Ipsden, L.
Rooker, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Sheldon, L.
Simon, V.
Slim, V.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Stallard, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Thornton, B.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Warner, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Whitty, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L. (Lord President of the Council)
Woolmer of Leeds, L.

Resolved in the affirmative, and amendment agreed to accordingly.

2 Jul 2003 : Column 899

4.10 p.m.

Clause 314 [Objectives for advertisements and sponsorship]:


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