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Wild Mammals (Protection)(Amendment) Bill [H.L.]

Lord Donoughue: My Lords, I beg to introduce a Bill to amend the Wild Mammals (Protection) Act 1996. I beg to move that this Bill be now read a first time.

Moved, That the Bill be now read a first time.—(Lord Donoughue.)

On Question, Bill read a first time, and to be printed.

European Union (Implications of Withdrawal) Bill [H.L.]

Lord Pearson of Rannoch: My Lords, I beg to introduce a Bill to establish a committee of inquiry into the implications of a withdrawal by the United Kingdom from the European Union. I beg to move that this Bill be now read a first time.

Moved, That the Bill be now read a first time.—(Lord Pearson of Rannoch.)

On Question, Bill read a first time, and to be printed.

Business of the House: Standing Order 41

Lord Williams of Mostyn: My Lords, I beg to move that Standing Order 41 (Arrangement of the Order Paper) be dispensed with so far as is necessary on 25th November next to enable the Motion standing in my name to be taken before the Second Reading of the Arms Control and Disarmament (Inspections) Bill.

On Question, Motion agreed to.

Constitution Committee

The Chairman of Committees (Lord Brabazon of Tara): My Lords, a noble Lord has indicated a wish to speak on the Motion on the European Union

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Committee. I shall, therefore, move the first two Motions in my name separately. I beg to move the first Motion standing in my name on the Order Paper.

Moved, That a Select Committee be appointed to examine the constitutional implications of all public Bills coming before the House; and to keep under review the operation of the constitution;

That, as proposed by the Committee of Selection, the following Lords be named of the committee:

L. Acton, L. Elton, L. Fellowes, B. Gould of Potternewton, L. Holme of Cheltenham, B. Howells of St Davids, L. Jauncey of Tullichettle, L. Lang of Monkton, L. MacGregor of Pulham Market, E. Mar and Kellie, L. Morgan, L. Norton of Louth (Chairman);

That the committee have power to appoint specialist advisers;

That the committee have power to adjourn from place to place;

That the committee have leave to report from time to time;

That the minutes of evidence taken before the Constitution Committee in the last Session of Parliament be referred to the committee;

That the minutes of evidence taken before the committee from time to time shall, if the committee think fit, be printed.—(The Chairman of Committees.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

European Union: Select Committee

The Chairman of Committees: My Lords, I beg to move the second Motion standing in my name on the Order Paper.

Moved, That a Select Committee be appointed to consider European Union documents and other matters relating to the European Union.

That the expression "European Union documents"" shall include the following documents:

(i) Any proposal under the Community treaties for legislation by the Council or the Council acting jointly with the European Parliament;

(ii) Any document which is published for submission to the European Council, the Council or the European Central Bank;

(iii) Any proposal for a common strategy, a joint action or a common position under Title V (provisions on a common foreign and security policy) of the Treaty on European Union which is prepared for submission to the Council or to the European Council;

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(iv) Any proposal for a common position, framework decision, decision or a convention under Title VI (provisions on police and judicial co-operation in criminal matters) of the Treaty on European Union which is prepared for submission to the Council;

(v) Any document (not falling within (ii), (iii) or (iv) above) which is published by one Union institution for or with a view to submission to another Union institution and which does not relate exclusively to consideration of any proposal for legislation;

(vi) Any other document relating to European Union matters deposited in the House by a Minister of the Crown.

That, as proposed by the Committee of Selection, the following Lords be named of the committee:

B. Billingham, L. Brennan, L. Cavendish of Furness, L. Dubs, L. Grenfell (Chairman), L. Hannay of Chiswick, B. Harris of Richmond, L. Jopling, L. Lamont of Lerwick, B. Maddock, L. Neill of Bladen, B. Park of Monmouth, L. Radice, L. Scott of Foscote, E. Selborne, B. Stern, L. Williamson of Horton, L. Woolmer of Leeds;

That the committee have power to appoint sub-committees and to refer to such sub-committees any of the matters within the terms of reference of the committee; that the committee have power to appoint the chairmen of sub-committees, but that such sub-committees have power to appoint their own chairman for the purpose of particular inquiries; that two be the quorum of such sub-committees;

That the committee have power to co-opt any Lord for the purpose of serving on a sub-committee;

That the committee have power to appoint specialist advisers;

That the committee and any sub-committee have power to adjourn from place to place;

That the committee have leave to report from time to time;

That the reports of the Select Committee from time to time shall be printed, notwithstanding any adjournment of the House;

That the minutes of evidence taken before the European Union Committee or any sub-committee in the last Session of Parliament be referred to the committee;

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That the minutes of evidence taken before the committee or any sub-committee from time to time shall, if the committee think fit, be printed.—(The Chairman of Committees.)

Lord Bruce of Donington: My Lords, I seek some clarification from the chairman of the European Union Committee. Is it possible for him to draw the line between material that goes, or should go, before the committee and material that bypasses the committee and goes directly to Ministers?

The position at present is that material bypasses even the Minister himself and goes directly from the European Commission to the ministry concerned. As a result, last year, about 2,000 items were placed directly on to the statute book without any ministerial control at all. They were merely subject to the say-so of whichever senior or semi-senior civil servant was dealing with the matter. I am sure the House will agree that clarification is required.

I suggest that it is desirable that the chairman of the European Union Committee should give some indication as to how far his writ or that of his committee runs, as to whether or not the decisions of his committee can be taken as a licence for matters to go straightaway into British law, and where the dividing lines are.

In view of the importance of European legislation and the fact that it is now entering into very mixed fields, I suggest that the conditions proposed for the European Union Select Committee are examined in much greater detail in order that there may be a delineation of powers as between the Government and the committee itself.

Lord Renton: My Lords, lest it should be thought that the proposal put before your Lordships by the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington, has no support, I want warmly to endorse what he said. If we are to have a European Union Committee, the views that he has expressed should be recognised.

Lord Pearson of Rannoch: My Lords, in further support of what the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington, said, can I ask the Chairman of Committees how the sift works nowadays? It is not clear from the Order Paper. When I had the privilege of serving on your Lordships' European Select Committee, the chairman of the committee used to sit down with the Clerk once a week to go through the many hundreds of documents that Brussels had deposited in the Foreign Office that week. They would decide which ones were to be examined by the various committees. The result of that sift was put before the whole Select Committee. One member of the committee might realise that a document that needed the scrutiny of a particular committee had slipped through. What is the system now? I and many other noble Lords would support a system whereby all

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members of the Select Committee and the sub-committees for each subject area check the sift to ensure that nothing that requires your Lordships' closer attention has slipped through.

The Chairman of Committees: My Lords, I am no longer the chairman of the European Union Committee. If this Motion is agreed to, the role will be assumed by the noble Lord, Lord Grenfell. I wish him well in his task. I very much enjoyed the 18 months during which I did the job.

The noble Lord, Lord Bruce, supported by the noble Lord, Lord Renton, raised what is popularly known as comitology, an issue not widely understood by noble Lords or anyone else. I can tell noble Lords that the European Union Committee is conducting a review of its role, as proposed by the Leader's group. We were unable to complete that review before the end of the Session, but it is well under way. This subject is among those covered in the review. So, too, is scrutiny, and how it is carried out. I have little doubt that the review will be published fairly shortly, and it will almost certainly be debated in this House in due course, subject, as usual, to agreement through the usual channels. I have no doubt that that will be the best time for the issues to be raised.

The noble Lord, Lord Rannoch, asked about the sift. The sift is conducted—certainly this was the case when I did it—as it always has been. The whole point of the sift is to reduce the amount of paper so that everything is not required to go before the Select Committee or, even worse, before all the sub- committees also. The detailed result of the sift is published fortnightly. So anyone can see exactly what has happened to any given document. I hope that that answers the questions raised, which are not strictly related to the membership of the committee anyway. I urge noble Lords to reserve their fire for the time when the review is published and debated. I beg to move.

On Question, Motion agreed to.


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