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The noble Lord said: My Lords, this amendment is necessitated, I submit, by a major development which has taken place since we completed the Report stage. This Bill emanates from the Liberal Democrat Benches—that is obvious to everyone—even though paradoxically, as I pointed out previously, the Liberal Democrats were the only party to vote unanimously 16 months ago, with no dissent permitted, against a Conservative amendment to the Sexual Offences (Amendment) Bill which would have protected 16 and 17 year-old boys and girls from a particular sexual practice which is twice as dangerous as smoking
Even though that happened, nevertheless, I was prepared to believe that the Liberal Democrats were, in other respects, genuinely concerned with the welfare of young people. It was, above all, that concern that motivated them to press so strongly for this Bill in the belief—whether justified or mistaken, only time will tell—that banning advertising would reduce tobacco consumption among young people. However, only six days ago the Liberal Democrat spring conference voted in favour of legalising cannabis. Once cannabis is legalised it can be freely advertised. The most charitable explanation for that is that the Liberal Democrats sincerely believe that cannabis is less dangerous to the user than tobacco, despite the well known carcinogenic consequences of cannabis and despite Dr Stuttaford pointing out yesterday in The Times that it often leads to schizophrenia.
Of course, I do not believe that the Liberal Democrats would seriously maintain that it is less dangerous to third parties. In that respect cannabis is akin to alcohol. Whatever one thinks about tobacco, however much one dislikes it, one has to admit that it is not responsible for death or injury on our roads in the way that, increasingly, cannabis is. Nor does tobacco provoke violence, as cannabis sometimes can. Your Lordships will be aware that the word "assassin" derives from the word "hashish".
The Liberal Democrats can argue that the respect in which cannabis resembles alcohol is not their immediate concern. The respects in which it parallels tobacco is what matters for the purposes of this Bill. To a user, as distinct from a third party, cannabis is less harmful than tobacco. Therefore, the latter deserves to be discouraged more rigorously.
If that analysis is scientifically proved to be correct, the amendment will have no effect in the short, medium or long term. It can be accepted without any further discussion in the knowledge that it is most unlikely ever to be used. On the other hand, if it is scientifically established that tobacco is significantly less harmful than cannabis to the user, surely it is patently unfair to impose restrictions on tobacco that will not be imposed upon cannabis. That will be the case especially if the Liberal Democrats have their way in regard to decriminalisation, as they may do after the next election if the result is a tight one and a 1974-style Lib-Lab pact comes into being. I beg to move.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, we had a debate on a sunset clause on Report. We disposed of that matter. I do not want to add anything further. I do not consider that a sunset clause is justified. In regard to cannabis, the Government have no intention of legalising it.
Lord Clement-Jones: My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Monson, for a splendidly hypothetical coda to this Bill. It was very opportunistic, especially in the light of my party's conference last weekend and the report on cannabis and health this week. I am
Throughout this Bill we have talked in terms of absolute risk and not relative risk. We believe that the banning of cigarette advertising will have a significant effect on tobacco consumption. If any legislation is needed to legalise or to prevent cannabis advertising, I am sure that we shall all leap up and down at a future date.
Lord Monson: My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for highlighting what appears to be a split in the de facto Lib-Lab pact and to the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, for his resolute good humour, which I appreciate. I have made my point. It may be interesting for people at large to study what I have said. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
An amendment (privilege) made.
Lord Clement-Jones: My Lords, I beg to move that the Bill do now pass.
Moved, That the Bill do now pass.—(Lord Clement-Jones.)
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, although it is not usually permitted to speak on the Motion that the Bill do now pass, perhaps I may trespass on the patience of the House to reflect that a great debt of gratitude is owed to the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, for the humorous and effective way in which he has conducted the proceedings on the Bill. I also pay tribute to all noble Lords who have taken part. This is the fifth Friday when we have had highly enjoyable debates on the Tobacco Advertising and Promotion Bill and many other issues, pace the noble Lord, Lord Monson. At times the proceedings have been tense, but never wholly disagreeable. We owe a debt of gratitude to all noble Lords who have taken part in the debates.
Lord Clement-Jones: My Lords, I thank the Minister for those words. I want to thank all the
I thank those who have helped to improve the Bill, such as the noble Lords, Lord Lucas and Lord Faulkner, and, dare I say, those who have tested the language and propositions contained in the Bill. Our debates have been conducted with great courtesy. I also thank the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, and my noble friend Lady Northover for their considerable assistance in gathering support.
Finally, I thank the Minister and the noble Lord, Lord Filkin, for their encouragement and help as the Bill has proceeded through the House. I recognise that in principle the Department of Health supports the Bill. It is regrettable that it was not introduced straight after the last election.
However, it is not so clear at this time whether the Bill will have a smooth passage through the House of Commons. Ministers will have had the admonitions from Sir Richard Doll and others last week, and I do not need to elaborate on those. But it is worth reading a short piece from the Health Service Journal of yesterday, which put the situation very fairly. It states:
That is a very fair statement and I hope that now that the Bill is about to proceed through the House of Commons, that the Government will take a favourable view and adopt it.
On Question, Bill passed, and sent to the Commons.
"( ) In the event that medical evidence emerges that tobacco is substantially less harmful to users than cannabis, the Secretary of State shall by order provide that the provisions of this Act shall cease to have effect.".
"The 'big test' is this month, with Liberal Democrat peer Lord Clement-Jones' private member's bill expected to clear the House of Lords tomorrow. The bill needs a swift move to the Commons if it is to make progress in this parliamentary session, Mr Bates [the chief executive of ASH] believes. If not, it will indicate 'something quite terrible about the government'. While there is no evidence of sinister forces at work, HSJ has established that the bill may fail to get a prompt Commons reading. The official line is that the government supports its aims, 'but it is too early to say if it will have time to be debated'. The government is 'waiting to see what amendments it has when it comes out of the Lords and what pressures of other business are in the Commons'".
15 Mar 2002 : Column 1089House adjourned at ten minutes past two o'clock.
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