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Baroness Northover: I hear what the Minister says. Although I still have some concerns, I am pleased that the noble Lord has accepted the idea that an advisory committee should be established. However, as I said, that could just as easily be disbanded. As these issues are clearly very complex, it seems to me to be extremely important that the Government should build in a process to ensure that they draw upon a wide group of people, and that they should seek a resolution by doing so. Therefore, it is equally important to ensure that such a provision is on the face of the Bill.

If, as the Minister said, this is a transitional process and Clause 67 will be repealed in due course, this provision could be repealed at the same time. Other provisions could then be put in its place. If the Minister is to achieve any consensus on this clause, he should seriously consider my amendment. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

[Amendments Nos. 305B to 311 not moved.]

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath moved Amendment No. 312:



"(10A) For the purposes of this section, patient information is "NHS patient information" if that information (or any of the information from which it is derived) was obtained or generated in the course of the provision of the health service."

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath moved Amendment No. 313:


    Page 69, line 8, leave out "from the individual in question" and insert "or generated"

On Question, amendment agreed to.

[Amendment No. 314 not moved.]

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath moved Amendment No. 315:


    Page 69, line 11, at end insert--


""the health service" has the same meaning as in the 1977 Act;"

On Question, amendment agreed to.

[Amendment No. 315A not moved.]

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath moved Amendment No. 316:


    Page 69, line 14, leave out from beginning to "that"

On Question, amendment agreed to.

[Amendments Nos. 316A and 316B not moved.]

Clause 67, as amended, agreed to.

Lord Rix moved Amendment No. 316C:


    After Clause 67, insert the following new clause--

22 Mar 2001 : Column 1706


"REPORTS TO PARLIAMENT ON SERVICES FOR DISABLED PEOPLE
(1) Section 11 of the Disabled Persons (Services, Consultation and Representation) Act 1986 (c.33) shall be amended as follows.
(2) Before subsection (1) there shall be inserted--
"(1ZA) In this section, subsection (1ZB) extends to England and Wales only and subsection (1) extends to Scotland only.
(1ZB) The Secretary of State shall annually lay before Parliament--
(a) a report containing such information as he considers appropriate with respect to the development of health and social services for persons with mental illness; and
(b) a report containing such information as he considers appropriate with respect to the development of health and social services for persons with learning disability;
and each of those reports may contain such other information as the Secretary of State considers appropriate."
(3) For subsection (2) there shall be substituted--
"(2) In this section--
"health service hospital" has the same meaning as in the 1978 Act, except that it does not include a State hospital;
"learning disability" means a state of arrested or incomplete development of mind which includes significant impairment of intelligence and social functioning.""

The noble Lord said: In moving Amendment No. 316C, I wish to speak also to the consequential Amendment No. 319D.

I find my original amendment transformed by legal hands:


    "There is a lawyer doth shape our ends, rough hew them how we may".

The transformation reflects, as I understand it, sympathy for my objective on the part of the Minister, but rather less sympathy for my drafting.

In the 15 years since the disabled persons Act was enacted, with its requirement for an annual report on what was then called mental handicap and mental illness services, both circumstances and language have changed a great deal. We have also, I hope, become rather better at distinguishing learning disability issues from mental health issues and rather less inclined simply to lump the two things together.

With mental health services already subject to a national service framework, and supported by specific grants, and with learning disability services now the subject of that admirable White Paper referred to this afternoon in the fourth Starred Question, incorporating an implementation programme, this seems a good time to update the present annual reporting requirement. The update I propose includes separating out learning disability and mental health and eliminating the present concentration on the use of hospital beds.

I have chosen to leave the Secretary of State a great deal of discretion as regards what he includes in his report, but I hope that the Minister will be able to assure me, in line with the precedents set by the White Paper, that matters within the ambit of government departments will be included as far as possible. I hope that he will also be able to reassure me, again in line with the White Paper, that the annual report to Parliament will include the perspectives of those at the receiving end. The process of producing the White

22 Mar 2001 : Column 1707

Paper has fully involved users and carers. I know that Mencap will be happy to contribute to that perspective each year.

I am sure that only preoccupation with other things, and the rather hidden history of Section 11, have prevented the Government proposing this amendment at an earlier stage. I should say that, while the inspiration of the new clause comes from Mencap, it has been shared with MIND as regards the mental health section, and the proposal for change has its full support.

I also ask the Committee to note the consequential Amendment No. 319D which reflects the role of the Welsh Assembly. I look forward with more than usual optimism to the Minister's response. I beg to move.

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: I found the noble Lord's drafting quite remarkable and his arguments quite persuasive. I support the amendment.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Clause 68, agreed to.

Clause 69 [Regulations and orders]:

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath moved Amendment No. 317:


    Page 71, line 29, leave out "67(3)" and insert "67"

The noble Lord said: I did my best to accept an amendment by the noble Earl, Lord Howe, and his other colleagues. We agree with the principle of this. We feel that the government amendment has the merit of shortening the Bill rather than lengthening it. I beg to move.

Earl Howe: This is a very gratifying way to end an evening.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

[Amendment No. 318 not moved.]

Clause 69, as amended, agreed to.

[Amendment No. 319 not moved.]

Clauses 70 to 74 agreed to.

Clause 75 [Short title, commencement and extent]:

[Amendments Nos. 319A to 319C not moved.]

Lord Rix moved Amendment No. 319D:


    Page 74, line 7, after "67" insert ", (Reports to Parliament on services for disabled people) except so far as extending to Wales"

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath moved Amendments Nos. 320 and 321:


    Page 74, line 25, leave out first "and" and insert "to"


    Page 74, line 29, at end insert--


"(8A) Subsection (8) does not apply in relation to any amendment or repeal relating to section 115 of the Police Act 1997, and any such amendment or repeal extends to England and Wales only."

22 Mar 2001 : Column 1708

On Question, amendments agreed to.

Clause 75, as amended, agreed to.

[Amendment No. 321A not moved.]

Schedule 5 [Minor and consequential amendments]:

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath moved Amendment No. 321B:


    Page 86, line 38, leave out sub-paragraph (3) and insert--


"(3) In section 17 (Secretary of State's directions: exercise of functions), for subsection (3) substitute--
"(3) Nothing in any provision made by or under this or any other Act shall be read as affecting the generality of subsection (1) above.""

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath moved Amendments Nos. 322 to 325:


    Page 87, line 2, at end insert--


"( ) In section 29A (medical lists), in subsection (3), for paragraph (b) there shall be substituted--
"(b) he is not disqualified from inclusion in all Health Authorities' medical lists by virtue of a national disqualification imposed on him by the FHSAA."
( ) In section 33 (distribution of general medical services), in subsection (1B), the words from "including, in particular," to the end of the subsection are omitted." Page 87, line 46, at end insert--


"(bb) after subsection (4) insert--
"(4A) Subsection (4) above applies to directions given under--
(a) paragraph 10(1) of Schedule 5 to this Act,
(b) paragraph 8(3) of Schedule 5A to this Act, or
(c) paragraph 16(5) of Schedule 2 to the National Health Service and Community Care Act 1990,
as well as to directions given in accordance with section 18 above as mentioned in that subsection."" Page 89, line 11, at end insert--


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