House of Lords Journal 233 (Session 1999-00)


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Tuesday 28 November 2000

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Alexander of Weedon, L.
Allen of Abbeydale, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Andrews, B.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Armstrong of Ilminster, L.
Arran, E.
Ashcroft, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Barber, L.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Bellwin, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Billingham, B.
Blackstone, B.
Blatch, B.
Blease, L.
Bledisloe, V.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bragg, L.
Bramall, L.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Briggs, L.
Brightman, L.
Brigstocke, B.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookeborough, V.
Brookman, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butterworth , L.
Byford, B.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carnarvon, E.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carr of Hadley, L.
Carter, L.
Cavendish of Furness, L.
Chadlington, L.
Chandos, V.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Cooke of Thorndon, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Cranborne, V.
Crathorne, L.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Cuckney, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Dahrendorf, L.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Dearing, L.
Denham, L.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dubs, L.
Dundee, E.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elder, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Ezra, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Ferrers, E.
Filkin, L.
Fitt, L.
Fookes, B.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Geddes, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gilbert, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goldsmith, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goschen, V.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greaves, L.
Greengross, B.
Gregson, L.
Grenfell, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hanningfield, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of High Cross, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Haskel, L.
Haskins, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Henley, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Hogg, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Holderness, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.

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Home, E.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Hope of Craighead, L.
Howe, E.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Tanworth, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Hylton, L.
Islwyn, L.
Jacobs, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Jopling, L.
Judd, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kimball, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Laing of Dunphail, L.
Laird, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Lichfield, Bp.
Lincoln, Bp.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Lipsey, L.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Longford, E.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McCarthy, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackay of Clashfern, L.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
McNally, L.
Mallalieu, B.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Methuen, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Mishcon, L.
Mitchell, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montrose, D.
Moore of Wolvercote, L.
Moran, L.
Morgan, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Naseby, L.
Newby, L.
Nicol, B.
Noakes, B.
Northbourne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Northover, B.
O’Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Parkinson, L.
Patten, L.
Paul, L.
Peel, E.
Perry of Walton, L.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Plumb, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Powell of Bayswater, L.
Prentice, L.
Prior, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Renton of Mount Harry, L.
Richard, L.
Richardson of Calow, B.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogan, L.
Rogers of Riverside, L.
Roll of Ipsden, L.
Roper, L.
Rosslyn, E.
Rotherwick, L.
Russell, E.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Sandberg, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Selsdon, L.
Serota, B.
Sewel, L.
Sharman, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shepherd, L.
Sheppard of Liverpool, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Shrewsbury, E.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Slim, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Southwark, Bp.
Stallard, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stodart of Leaston, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Gryfe, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Tenby, V.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Varley, L.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Walker of Worcester, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Warner, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitaker, B.

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Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Wilcox, B.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Windlesham, L.
Winston, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Young, B.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Lichfield.

Judicial Business

1.Appeal Committee—The following Orders were made pursuant to the 67th Report:

Ashworth Frazer Limited (Respondents) v. Gloucester City Council (Petitioners)—That leave to appeal be given, and that the petition of appeal be lodged by 12th December next.

Sinochem International Oil (London) Co Limited (Petitioners) v. Mobil Sales and Supply Corporation (Respondents) and others—That the petition be referred for hearing.

Regina v. Secretary of State for the Home Department (Respondent) ex parte Turgut (A.P.) (Petitioner)—That leave to appeal be given, and that the petition of appeal be lodged by 5th December next.

Farley (Petitioner) v. Skinner (Respondent)—That the petition be referred for hearing.

Papers

2.Command Papers—The following papers were presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Countryside—
(i)Our Countryside: the Futurea Fair Deal for rural England: Government Proposals;(4909)
(ii)Government Response to the 7th Report of the House of Commons Environment, Transport and Regional Affairs Committee on the Rural White Paper;(4910)
2.Air Services—Exchange of Notes between the United Kingdom and Vietnam amending the Air Services Agreement done at London on 19th August 1994.
 (4927)
3.Deregulation—The following order was laid before the House for approval by resolution under section 1(4) of the Deregulation and Contracting Out Act 1994 and referred to the Delegated Powers and Deregulation Committee:

Draft Deregulation (Sunday Dancing) Order 2000.

4.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Greater London Authority Act 1999 (Commencement No. 8 and Consequential Provisions Order 2000, laid under the Greater London Authority Act 1999;
 (3145)
2.Private Hire Vehicles (London) (Operators’ Licences) Regulations 2000, laid under the Private Hire Vehicles (London) Act 1998;
 (3146)
3.Statute made by the University of Cambridge on 4th July, laid under the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge Act 1923.
 (—)
5.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
(i)Overseas Service Pensions Amendment (No. 2) Scheme 2000;
 (—)
(ii)Overseas Public Officers’ Pensions (Pension Sharing) Amendment Scheme 2000;
  (—)
 laid under the Overseas Pensions Act 1973.

Select Committee Reports

6.Statutory Instruments—The 33rd Report from the Joint Committee was made on certain statutory instruments, including the following affirmative instruments:
 Draft Apportionment of Money in the National Lottery Distribution Fund Order 2000;
 Draft Millennium Commission (Substitution of a Later Date) Order 2000;
 Mink Keeping (England) Order 2000;
 Draft Human Fertilisation and Embryology (Research Purposes) Regulations 2000;

it was ordered that the Report be printed. (HL Paper 127)

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7.European Union—The 20th Report from the Select Committee, The EU Social Policy Agenda, was made; it was ordered that the Report be printed, together with the Minutes of Evidence. (HL Paper 128)

Public Business

8.Disqualifications Bill—The bill was read a third time; an amendment was moved and (by leave of the House) withdrawn; then the bill was passed and returned to the Commons with amendments.
9.Children (Leaving Care) Bill [HL]—The Commons amendments were considered and agreed to; and the privilege amendment was agreed to.
10.Freedom of Information Bill—The bill was returned from the Commons with the amendments agreed to.
11.Criminal Justice and Court Services Bill—The Commons amendments and reasons were considered; certain Lords amendments were not insisted on and Commons amendments in lieu thereof were agreed to; further Lords amendments were not insisted on and Commons amendments to words restored to the bill were agreed to; Commons’ consequential amendments to the bill were agreed to; Commons amendments to certain Lords amendments were agreed to; a motion to insist on a Lords amendment was disagreed to (see division list); then the amendment was not insisted on and amendments in lieu thereof were agreed to; and the remaining Lords amendments were not insisted on; then the bill was returned to the Commons with amendments.

The House was adjourned at twenty-six minutes past six o’clock
till tomorrow, two o’clock for judicial business,
half-past two o’clock for public business.


DIVISION

CRIMINAL JUSTICE AND COURT SERVICES BILL

It was moved by the Lord Dholakia, as an amendment to the motion of the Lord Bassam of Brighton that this House do not insist on its Amendment 121 to which the Commons have disagreed and do agree to Amendment 121B in lieu thereof, to leave out the words after (“House”) and insert (“do insist on its Amendment 121”); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided:

Contents.............116

Not-Contents.............139

CONTENTS

Ackner, L.
Addington, L.
Arran, E.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Barker, B.
Blatch, B.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Brookeborough, V.
Byford, B.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Clement-Jones, L.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Cox, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Cuckney, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Dholakia, L. [Teller]
Dixon-Smith, L.
Dundee, E.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L. [Teller]
Erroll, E.
Ezra, L.
Falkland, V.
Ferrers, E.
Fookes, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Glentoran, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greaves, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of High Cross, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Holderness, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Hylton, L.
Jopling, L.
Kimball, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Laird, L.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Liverpool, E.
Lyell, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackay of Clashfern, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
McNally, L.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Methuen, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montrose, D.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Newby, L.
Noakes, B.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Northover, B.
O’Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Parkinson, L.

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Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Prior, L.
Razzall, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rennard, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Roper, L.
Russell, E.
Sandberg, L.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Selsdon, L.
Sharman, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Stodart of Leaston, L.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Tenby, V.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Walker of Worcester, L.
Walmsley, B.
Wilcox, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Windlesham, L.
Young, B.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Ahmed, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Amos, B.
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Bach, L.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Billingham, B.
Blackstone, B.
Blease, L.
Borrie, L.
Bragg, L.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Briggs, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Burlison, L.
Carnarvon, E.
Carter, L. [Teller]
Chandos, V.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Crawley, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Desai, L.
Dixon, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Goldsmith, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grenfell, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harrison, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayman, B.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
(Lord Privy Seal)
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Judd, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kirkhill, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lipsey, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Longford, E.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller]
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mallalieu, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Mishcon, L.
Mitchell, L.
Molloy, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Nicol, B.
Paul, L.
Peston, L.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Powell of Bayswater, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Richard, L.
Richardson of Calow, B.
Rogers of Riverside, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Sewel, L.
Shepherd, L.
Sheppard of Liverpool, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Simon, V.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Gryfe, L.
Thornton, B.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Varley, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Warner, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Winston, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.