House of Lords Journal 233 (Session 1999-00)


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Thursday 16 November 2000

The House met at three o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Allen of Abbeydale, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Andrews, B.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Arran, E.
Ashcroft, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Bath and Wells, Bp.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Billingham, B.
Blackwell, L.
Blatch, B.
Blease, L.
Boardman, L.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bragg, L.
Brennan, L.
Bridges, L.
Brightman, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butler of Brockwell, L.
Butterworth, L.
Buxton of Alsa, L.
Byford, B.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carlile of Berriew, L.
Carnarvon, E.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carrington, L.
Carter, L.
Carver, L.
Chalfont, L.
Chandos, V.
Chichester, Bp.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Cranborne, V.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Cuckney, L.
Currie of Marylebone, L.

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Dahrendorf, L.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Denham, L.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donaldson of Lymington, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dubs, L.
Dundee, E.
Durham, Bp.
Eames, L.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elder, L.
Elis-Thomas, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Emerton, B.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Ezra, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Feldman, L.
Ferrers, E.
Filkin, L.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freyberg, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Geraint, L.
Gibson, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gilbert, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Glentoran, L.
Gloucester, Bp.
Goldsmith, L.
Goodhart, L.
Goschen, V.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Greaves, L.
Greengross, B.
Greenway, L.
Grenfell, L.
Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hanningfield, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harrison, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayman, B.
Healey, L.
Henley, L.
Hereford, Bp.
Higgins, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Hogg, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Hooper, B.
Howe, E.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Inglewood, L.
Islwyn, L.
Jacobs, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeger, B.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Jopling, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Laird, L.
Laming, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lewis of Newnham, L.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Lipsey, L.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Longford, E.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
MacLaurin of Knebworth, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mallalieu, B.
Mancroft, L.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Mishcon, L.
Mitchell, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montrose, D.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moynihan, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Naseby, L.
Neill of Bladen, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicholson of Winterbourne, B.
Nicol, B.
Noakes, B.
Northbourne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Northover, B.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Orme, L.
Oxford, Bp.
Oxfuird, V.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Patten, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Peel, E.
Peston, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Plumb, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Portsmouth, Bp.
Powell of Bayswater, L.
Prior, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Renton of Mount Harry, L.
Richard, L.
Richardson of Calow, B.
Rix, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogan, L.
Rogers of Riverside, L.
Roll of Ipsden, L.
Russell, E.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Saatchi, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
Sandberg, L.
Sandwich, E.

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Scott of Needham Market, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Selsdon, L.
Serota, B.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shepherd, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Shrewsbury, E.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Slim, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Southwark, Bp.
Stern, B.
Stewartby, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Tebbit, L.
Tenby, V.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Swynnerton, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakefield, Bp.
Wakeham, L.
Waldegrave of North Hill, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.
Warner, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Wilcox, B.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Winchester, Bp.
Windlesham, L.
Winston, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Young, B.
Young of Old Scone, B.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Oxford.

Judicial Business

1.Regina v. Forbes (Appellant) (2000) (On Appeal from the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division))—The appeal of Giles Javen Forbes was presented and ordered to be prosecuted subject to the procedures applicable thereto.
2.Appeal Committee—The following Orders were made pursuant to the 69th Report:

Krasner (the trustee in bankruptcy of John William Alexander Dennison) (Respondent) v. Dennison (Petitioner) and others—That the petition be referred for hearing.

Lawrence (Respondent) v. Lesser (Petitioner)—That the petition be referred for hearing.

Papers

3.Command Papers—The following papers were presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Standards in Public Life—7th Report of the Committee on Standards in Public Life, on Standards of Conduct in the House of Lords;
 (4903)
2.Social Security—Convention on Social Security between the United Kingdom and Turkey with Protocol concerning health care;
 (4919)
3.Urban Development—
(i)White paper on “Our towns and cities: the future”;(4911)
(ii)Government response to the 11th Report of the House of Commons Select Committee on Environment, Transport and Regional Affairs on the Proposed Urban White Paper.(4912)
4.Negative Instrument—The following instrument was laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:

Crown Office (Forms and Proclamations Rules) (Amendment) Order 2000, laid under the Crown Office Act 1877.

(3064)

5.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Treasury minute directing the application of certain receipts as appropriations in aid of the votes specified in the winter supplementary estimates for 2000–2001, laid under the Public Accounts and Charges Act 1891;
2.Report and accounts for 1999–2000 of the Defence Transport and Movements Agency, laid under the Exchequer and Audit Departments Act 1921;

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3.Strategy for 2000–2003 of the National Endowment for Science, Technology and the Arts, laid under the National Lottery Act 1998;
4.Report for 1999–2000 of the Pensions Compensation Board, laid under the Pensions Act 1995.

Private Business

6.Alliance & Leicester Group Treasury plc (Transfer) Bill [HL]—A message was brought from the Commons, that they have made the following orders:

That the promoters of the Alliance & Leicester Group Treasury plc (Transfer) Bill [Lords] shall have leave to suspend proceedings thereon in order to proceed with it, if they think fit, in the next session of Parliament, provided that notice of their intention to do so is lodged in the Private Bill Office not later than the day before the close of the present session and that all fees due up to that date have been paid;

That, if the bill is brought from the Lords in the next session, a declaration signed by the agent shall be deposited in the Private Bill Office, stating that the bill is the same in every respect as the bill brought from the Lords in the present session;

That the Clerk in the Private Bill Office shall lay upon the Table of the House a certificate, that such a declaration has been deposited;

That in the next session the bill shall be deemed to have passed through every stage through which it has passed in the present session, and shall be recorded in the Journal of the House as having passed those stages;

That no further fees shall be charged to such stages;

That, no petitions against the bill having been presented within the time provided for petitioning, no petitioners shall be heard before any committee on the bill save those who complain of any amendment as proposed in the filled-up bill or of any matter which arises during the progress of the bill before the committee.

7.City of Newcastle upon Tyne Bill [HL]—It was moved by the Chairman of Committees that the Commons message of yesterday be now considered; and that the promoters of the bill have leave to suspend any further proceedings thereon in order to proceed with it, if they think fit, in the next session of Parliament, provided that notice of their intention to do so is lodged in the Office of the Clerk of the Parliaments not later than 12 noon on Monday 27th November;

That the bill be deposited in the Office of the Clerk of the Parliaments not later than noon on the second sitting day in the next session with a declaration annexed, signed by the agent, stating that the bill is the same in every respect as the bill at the last stage of the proceedings thereon in this House in the present session;

That the proceedings on the bill in the next session of Parliament be pro forma in regard to every stage through which the bill has passed in the present session, and that no new fees be charged to such stages;

That the Private Business Standing Orders apply to the bill in the next session only in regard to any stage through which the bill has not passed in the present session;

the motion was agreed to; it was ordered that a message be sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.

Public Business

8.Transport Bill—The bill was returned from the Commons with certain amendments disagreed to with reasons for such disagreement and with the remaining amendments agreed to; the Commons reasons were ordered to be printed. (HL Bill 131)
9. Warm Homes and Energy Conservation Bill—The bill was read a third time and passed.
10.Countryside and Rights of Way Bill—The bill was further considered on report; amendments were moved and (by leave of the House) withdrawn; amendments were agreed to; further consideration on report was adjourned.
11.Social Security (Incapacity Benefit) Miscellaneous Amendments Regulations 2000—It was moved by the Baroness Hollis of Heigham that the draft Regulations laid before the House on 6th November be approved; after debate, the motion was agreed to.

The House was adjourned during pleasure.
The House was resumed.

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12.Countryside and Rights of Way Bill—The bill was further considered on report; amendments were agreed to; amendments were moved and (by leave of the House) withdrawn; an amendment was disagreed to (see division list); it was ordered that the bill be printed as amended. (HL Bill 132)

The House was adjourned at a quarter-before two o’clock
in the morning of Friday 17th November to Monday next, half-past two o’clock.


DIVISION

COUNTRYSIDE AND RIGHTS OF WAY BILL

It was moved by the Lord Luke, in Schedule 9, page 118, line 22, at end to insert:

(“( ) Where a notice under subsection (3) has been given and is subsequently withdrawn, the Council shall reimburse any costs reasonably incurred by any of the persons mentioned in subsection (3) in making any representation or objection in relation to the notice.”);

which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided:

Contents.............20

Not-Contents.............46

CONTENTS

Arran, E.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Buxton of Alsa, L.
Byford, B.
Dixon-Smith, L. [Teller]
Elton, L.
Glentoran, L.
Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Luke, L. [Teller]
Marlesford, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montrose, D.
Peel, E.
Renton of Mount Harry, L.
Selborne, E.
Waldegrave of North Hill, L.
Wilcox, B.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Amos, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Bach, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Billingham, B.
Borrie, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Carlile of Berriew, L.
Carter, L. [Teller]
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Filkin, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gilbert, L.
Greaves, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harrison, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayman, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller]
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Maddock, B.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennard, L.
Simon, V.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Thornton, B.
Warner, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Young of Old Scone, B.