House of Lords Journal 233 (Session 1999-00)


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Page 731

1999-00

Volume 233      

Tuesday 17 October 2000

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Andrews, B.
Anelay of St. Johns, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Arran, E.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Bell, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Biffen, L.
Billingham, B.
Birt, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Bledisloe, V.
Blood, B.
Boardman, L.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bragg, L.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brightman, L.
Bristol, Bp.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookeborough, V.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Burns, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butterworth, L.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carnarvon, E.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carrington, L.
Carter, L.
Chadlington, L.
Chalfont, L.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Cranborne, V.
Crathorne, L.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Cuckney, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Dahrendorf, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Denham, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Dundee, E.
Eames, L.
Eatwell, L.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Ezra, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Fellowes, L.
Ferrers, E.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Flowers, L.
Fookes, B.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Freyberg, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Geddes, L.
Geraint, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gilbert, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goldsmith, L.
Goodhart, L.
Goschen, V.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greaves, L.
Greenway, L.
Gregson, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of High Cross, L.
Harris of Peckham, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Holderness, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hussey of North Bradley, L.
Hylton, L.

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Islwyn, L.
Jacobs, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeger, B.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Jopling, L.
Jordan, L.
Judd, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kimball, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kirkham, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Laird, L.
Laming, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Levy, L.
Lindsay, E.
Lipsey, L.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Longford, E.
Lucas, L.
Luce, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McCarthy, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackay of Drumadoon, L.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mallalieu, B.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Methuen, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Mishcon, L.
Mitchell, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montrose, D.
Moran, L.
Morgan, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moynihan, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Naseby, L.
Nicholson of Winterbourne, B.
Nicol, B.
Noakes, B.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Orme, L.
Owen, L.
Oxfuird, V.
Palmer, L.
Parekh, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Peel, E.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plumb, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prentice, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Quirk, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Renwick of Clifton, L.
Richard, L.
Rix, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogan, L.
Roll of Ipsden, L.
Rosslyn, E.
Rotherwick, L.
Ryder of Warsaw, B.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Sandberg, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sawyer, L.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Selkirk of Douglas, L.
Selsdon, L.
Serota, B.
Sewel, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Shrewsbury, E.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Southwark, Bp.
Stallard, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stodart of Leaston, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Tenby, V.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Varley, L.
Vinson, L.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wakeham, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Warner, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Willoughby de Broke, L.
Wilson of Tillyorn, L.
Winston, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Young of Dartington, L.

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PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Bristol.

1.Lord Jordan—William Brian Jordan Esquire, CBE, having been created Baron Jordan, of Bournville in the County of West Midlands, for life by Letters Patent dated 5th June 2000 (see appendix 2), was introduced between the Lord Christopher and the Lord Faulkner of Worcester, the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod and Garter King of Arms preceding; and took and subscribed the oath pursuant to statute.
2.Lord Luce—The Right Honourable Sir Richard Napier Luce, Knight, having been created Baron Luce, of Adur in the County of West Sussex, for life by Letters Patent dated 2nd October 2000 (see appendix 3), was introduced between the Lord Weatherill and the Lord Fellowes, the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod and Garter King of Arms preceding; and took and subscribed the oath pursuant to statute.

Papers

3.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Education (Mandatory Awards) Regulations 2000 (Amendment) Regulations 2000, laid under the Education Act 1962;
 (2825)
2.Legal Aid in Criminal and Care Proceedings (General) (Amendment) (No. 5) Regulations 2000, laid under the Legal Aid Act 1988.
 (2824)

Public Business

4.Freedom of Information Bill—After debate, the House resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; amendments were agreed to; the House was resumed.
5.Fur Farming (Prohibition) Bill—The bill was reported from a Grand Committee with amendments (see appendix 1); it was ordered that the bill be printed as amended. (HL Bill 117)
6.Housing—The Baroness Maddock asked Her Majesty’s Government what steps they propose to take to implement the proposals in the Housing Green Paper; after debate, the question was answered by the Lord Whitty.
7.Freedom of Information Bill—The House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were agreed to; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; an amendment was agreed to (see division list); the House was resumed after amendment 96.

The House was adjourned at twenty-six minutes before midnight
till tomorrow, half-past two o’clock.


DIVISION

FREEDOM OF INFORMATION BILL

It was moved by the Lord Falconer of Thoroton, in Clause 9, page 5, line 35, at end to insert:

(“(2A) If, and to the extent that—

(a) section 1(1)(a) would not apply but for paragraphs (a) and (b) of section (Effect of exemptions)(1), or

(b) section 1(1)(b) would not apply but for paragraphs (a) and (b) of section (Effect of exemptions)(2),

the public authority need not comply with section 1(1)(a) or (b) until such time as is reasonable in the circumstances; but this subsection does not affect the time by which any notice under section 15(1) must be given.”);

which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the Committee divided:

Contents.............48

Not-Contents.............12

CONTENTS

Alli, L.
Amos, B.
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Bach, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Billingham, B.
Bragg, L.
Brennan, L.
Burlison, L.
Carter, L. [Teller]
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Harris of Haringey, L.

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Harrison, L.
Hayman, B.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Judd, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lipsey, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller]
Massey of Darwen, B.
Mitchell, L.
Parekh, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Thornton, B.
Turnberg, L.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Whitaker, B.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Attlee, E.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Glentoran, L.
Henley, L. [Teller]
Lucas, L. [Teller]
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Norton of Louth, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Shrewsbury, E.
Willoughby de Broke, L.


APPENDIX 1

PROCEEDINGS OF THE GRAND COMMITTEE (IN THE MOSES ROOM)

The Committee met at half-past three o’clock

Fur Farming (Prohibition) Bill—The bill was considered in a Grand Committee; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; amendments were agreed to; it was ordered that the bill be reported with amendments.

The Committee was adjourned at six o’clock


APPENDIX 2

ELIZABETH THE SECOND by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Our other Realms and Territories Queen Head of the Commonwealth Defender of the Faith To all Lords Spiritual and Temporal and all other Our Subjects whatsoever to whom these Presents shall come Greeting Know Ye that We of Our especial grace certain knowledge and mere motion in pursuance of the Life Peerages Act 1958 and of all other powers in that behalf Us enabling do by these Presents advance create and prefer Our trusty and well beloved William Brian Jordan Esquire Commander of Our Most Excellent Order of the British Empire to the state degree style dignity title and honour of Baron Jordan of Bournville in Our County of West Midlands

And for Us Our heirs and successors do appoint give and grant unto him the said name state degree style dignity title and honour of Baron Jordan to have and to hold unto him for his life

Willing and by these Presents granting for Us Our heirs and successors that he may have hold and possess a seat place and voice in the Parliaments and Public Assemblies and Councils of Us Our heirs and successors within Our United Kingdom amongst the Barons And also that he may enjoy and use all the rights privileges pre-eminences immunities and advantages to the degree of a Baron duly and of right belonging which Barons of Our United Kingdom have heretofore used and enjoyed or as they do at present use and enjoy

In Witness whereof We have caused these Our Letters to be made Patent Witness Ourself at Westminster the fifth day of June in the forty-ninth year of Our Reign

BY WARRANT UNDER THE QUEEN’S SIGN MANUAL


APPENDIX 3

ELIZABETH THE SECOND by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Our other Realms and Territories Queen Head of the Commonwealth Defender of the Faith To all Lords Spiritual and Temporal and all other Our Subjects whatsoever to whom these Presents shall come Greeting Know Ye that We of Our especial grace certain knowledge and mere motion in pursuance of the Life Peerages Act 1958 and of all other powers in that behalf Us enabling do by these Presents advance create and prefer Our right trusty and well beloved Counsellor Sir Richard Napier Luce Knight to the state degree style dignity title and honour of Baron Luce of Adur in Our County of West Sussex

And for Us Our heirs and successors do appoint give and grant unto him the said name state degree style dignity title and honour of Baron Luce to have and to hold unto him for his life

Willing and by these Presents granting for Us Our heirs and successors that he may have hold and possess a seat place and voice in the Parliaments and Public Assemblies and Councils of Us Our heirs and successors within Our United Kingdom amongst the Barons And also that he may enjoy and use all the rights privileges pre-eminences immunities and advantages to the degree of a Baron duly and of

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right belonging which Barons of Our United Kingdom have heretofore used and enjoyed or as they do at present use and enjoy

In Witness whereof We have caused these Our Letters to be made Patent Witness Ourself at Westminster the second day of October in the forty-ninth year of Our Reign

BY WARRANT UNDER THE QUEEN’S SIGN MANUAL