House of Lords Journal 233 (Session 1999-00)


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Monday 16 October 2000

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Allen of Abbeydale, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Andrews, B.
Anelay of St. Johns, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Arran, E.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.

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Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Biffen, L.
Billingham, B.
Birt, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Blease, L.
Bledisloe, V.
Boardman, L.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bragg, L.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brightman, L.
Bristol, Bp.
Brittan of Spennithorne, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Burns, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butterworth, L.
Buxton of Alsa, L.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carlile of Berriew, L.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carnarvon, E.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carter, L.
Castle of Blackburn, B.
Chandos, V.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Cranborne, V.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Cuckney, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Dearing, L.
Deedes, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Eames, L.
Eatwell, L.
Elder, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Ezra, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Ferrers, E.
Filkin, L.
Fitt, L.
Fookes, B.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freeman, L.
Freyberg, L.
Gale, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Geddes, L.
Geraint, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gilbert, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goldsmith, L.
Goodhart, L.
Goschen, V.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Grabiner, L.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greaves, L.
Greengross, B.
Greenway, L.
Gregson, L.
Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hanningfield, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Hogg, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Home, E.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Hope of Craighead, L.
Howe, E.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hussey of North Bradley, L.
Hylton, L.
Inge, L.
Islwyn, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeger, B.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Jopling, L.
Judd, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kimball, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Laird, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Lipsey, L.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
London, Bp.
Longford, E.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackay of Drumadoon, L.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mallalieu, B.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.

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Miller of Hendon, B.
Mishcon, L.
Mitchell, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montrose, D.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moynihan, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicholson of Winterbourne, B.
Nicol, B.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Northover, B.
O’Cathain, B.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Orme, L.
Oxford, Bp.
Oxfuird, V.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patel, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Peel, E.
Perry of Walton, L.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Portsmouth, Bp.
Prashar, B.
Prys-Davies, L.
Quirk, L.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Renton of Mount Harry, L.
Renwick of Clifton, L.
Richard, L.
Rix, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogers of Riverside, L.
Roll of Ipsden, L.
Roper, L.
Rosslyn, E.
Rotherwick, L.
Russell, E.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Sandberg, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sawyer, L.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Selkirk of Douglas, L.
Serota, B.
Sewel, L.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shepherd, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Shrewsbury, E.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Southwark, Bp.
Stallard, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Tanlaw, L.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Tenby, V.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Turner of Camden, B.
Varley, L.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Walpole, L.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Warner, L.
Warnock, B.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Winston, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Young of Old Scone, B.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Bristol.

Judicial Business

1.Butt (a child by her litigation friend and father Shaheen Butt) (A.P.) (Appellant) v. Secretary of State for Social Security (Respondent) (England)—The appeal of Momina Butt was presented and it was ordered that in accordance with Standing Order VI the statement and appendix thereto be lodged on or before 27th November next.
2.Regina v. Ali and another (Petitioners)—The petition of Mudassir Ali and Shirley Jordan praying for leave to appeal in accordance with the Criminal Appeal Act 1968 was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee (lodged 14th August).

Papers

3.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1. (i)Regulation of Investigatory Powers (Cancellation of Authorisations) Regulations 2000—(2794)
(ii)Regulation of Investigatory Powers (Juveniles) Order 2000—(2793)
 laid under the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000;

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2.Motor Vehicles (EC Type Approval) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2000, laid under the European Communities Act 1972.
 (2730)
4.Paper not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following paper was laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:

Specified Risk Material (Amendment) (Wales) Order 2000, laid under the Animal Health Act 1981.

(2811)

Public Business

5.Countryside and Rights of Way Bill—The House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; amendments were agreed to; amendments were disagreed to (see division lists 1 and 2); the House was resumed.
6.Prison education—The Earl of Longford asked Her Majesty’s Government whether they are satisfied with the education currently provided in prisons; after debate, the question was answered by the Lord Bassam of Brighton.
7.Countryside and Rights of Way Bill—The House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; amendments were agreed to; the House was resumed and the bill was reported with amendments; it was ordered that the bill be printed as amended. (HL Bill 116)

The House was adjourned at fourteen minutes before three o’clock
in the morning of Tuesday 17th October
till later the same day, half-past two o’clock in the afternoon.


DIVISIONS

Division No. 1

COUNTRYSIDE AND RIGHTS OF WAY BILL

It was moved by the Lord Luke, in Schedule 8, page 101, line 42, at end to insert:

(“( ) Where any land acquired compulsorily by the Council ceases to be used or needed for the purpose for which it was acquired, subject to subsection (4) above, the former owner or his heirs at law shall have first refusal to purchase the land in question.”);

which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the Committee divided:

Contents.............92

Not-Contents.............113

CONTENTS

Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Arran, E.
Astor of Hever, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Biffen, L.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Bledisloe, V.
Boardman, L.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brittan of Spennithorne, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Burnham, L. [Teller]
Buxton of Alsa, L.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carnarvon, E.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Courtown, E.
Cox, B.
Craigavon, V.
Cranborne, V.
Crickhowell, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Deedes, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Elton, L.
Erroll, E.
Fookes, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Geddes, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goschen, V.
Hanham, B.
Henley, L. [Teller]
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Hogg, B.
Hooper, B.
Howe, E.
Hylton, L.
Jopling, L.
Kimball, L.
Liverpool, E.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
Marlesford, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Monson, L.
Montrose, D.
Moynihan, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
O’Cathain, B.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Peel, E.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Reay, L.
Renton, L.
Renton of Mount Harry, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Sandwich, E.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shrewsbury, E.
Skelmersdale, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.

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Stewartby, L.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Tenby, V.
Trefgarne, L.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Weatherill, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Ahmed, L.
Alli, L.
Amos, B.
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Bach, L.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Billingham, B.
Blackstone, B.
Bragg, L.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Burlison, L.
Carter, L. [Teller]
Castle of Blackburn, B.
Christopher, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Crawley, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Dixon, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Fitt, L.
Gale, B.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gilbert, L.
Goldsmith, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Gregson, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harrison, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayman, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Islwyn, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
(Lord Privy Seal)
Jeger, B.
Judd, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lipsey, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller]
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mallalieu, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Mishcon, L.
Mitchell, L.
Molloy, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Nicol, B.
Orme, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Peston, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Prys-Davies, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rogers of Riverside, L.
Serota, B.
Shepherd, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Simon, V.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Thornton, B.
Turner of Camden, B.
Varley, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Warner, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Winston, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Young of Old Scone, B.

Division No. 2

COUNTRYSIDE AND RIGHTS OF WAY BILL

It was moved by the Baroness Byford, after Clause 67, to insert the following new Clause (Compulsory acquisition of land by Nature Conservancy for establishment of nature reserves); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the Committee divided:

Contents.............78

Not-Contents.............125

CONTENTS

Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Biffen, L.
Blatch, B.
Bledisloe, V.
Boardman, L.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brittan of Spennithorne, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Burnham, L. [Teller]
Buscombe, B.
Buxton of Alsa, L.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Cranborne, V.
Crickhowell, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Elton, L.
Fookes, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Geddes, L.

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Glentoran, L.
Goschen, V.
Hanham, B.
Henley, L. [Teller]
Hogg, B.
Hooper, B.
Howe, E.
Hylton, L.
Jopling, L.
Kimball, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Liverpool, E.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mar, C.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Monson, L.
Montrose, D.
Moynihan, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Peel, E.
Reay, L.
Renton, L.
Renton of Mount Harry, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Shrewsbury, E.
Skelmersdale, L.
Stewartby, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Alli, L.
Amos, B.
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Bach, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Billingham, B.
Blackstone, B.
Bragg, L.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Burlison, L.
Carter, L. [Teller]
Christopher, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Crawley, B.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Dixon, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Gale, B.
Geraint, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gilbert, L.
Goldsmith, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Greaves, L.
Gregson, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayman, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Islwyn, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
(Lord Privy Seal)
Jeger, B.
Judd, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lipsey, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Longford, E.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller]
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mallalieu, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Mitchell, L.
Molloy, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Newby, L.
Nicol, B.
Orme, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Renwick of Clifton, L.
Rogers of Riverside, L.
Sawyer, L.
Shepherd, L.
Simon, V.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Turner of Camden, B.
Varley, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Walpole, L.
Warner, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Winston, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Young of Old Scone, B.