House of Lords Journal 233 (Session 1999-00)


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Monday 9 October 2000

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Alexander of Weedon, L.
Allen of Abbeydale, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Andrews, B.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Astor, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Berkeley, L.
Biffen, L.
Birt, L.
Blackburn, Bp.
Blackstone, B.
Blackwell, L.
Blatch, B.

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Blease, L.
Blood, B.
Boardman, L.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradford, Bp.
Bragg, L.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brightman, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookeborough, V.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Burns, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butterworth, L.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carter, L.
Chalker of Wallasey, B.
Chandos, V.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Cranborne, V.
Crawley, B.
Cuckney, L.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Deedes, L.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donaldson of Lymington, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Elder, L.
Elis-Thomas, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Ezra, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freeman, L.
Freyberg, L.
Gale, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Geraint, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goldsmith, L.
Goodhart, L.
Goschen, V.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greengross, B.
Grenfell, L.
Hanningfield, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of High Cross, L.
Harris of Peckham, L.
Harrison, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Henley, L.
Hereford, Bp.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Holderness, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Home, E.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Howe, E.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Hussey of North Bradley, L.
Islwyn, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeger, B.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Jopling, L.
Judd, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kimball, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kirkham, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Laird, L.
Laming, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Lindsay, E.
Lipsey, L.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Longford, E.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
Macfarlane of Bearsden, L.
McFarlane of Llandaff, B.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
McNally, L.
Mallalieu, B.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monson, L.
Moore of Wolvercote, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moynihan, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Nicol, B.
Northbourne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Northover, B.
O’Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Orme, L.
Oxfuird, V.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patel, L.
Peel, E.
Perry of Walton, L.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Porter of Luddenham, L.
Powell of Bayswater, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.

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Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rawlings, B.
Rawlinson of Ewell, L.
Rea, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Renton, L.
Richard, L.
Richardson of Calow, B.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Roll of Ipsden, L.
Roper, L.
Rosslyn, E.
Rotherwick, L.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Sandberg, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Selsdon, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shepherd, L.
Sheppard of Liverpool, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Slim, V.
Slynn of Hadley, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Southwark, Bp.
Stallard, L.
Stern, B.
Stewartby, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Thatcher, B.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Turner of Camden, B.
Varley, L.
Vivian, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Warner, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Wilcox, B.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Willoughby de Broke, L.
Wilson of Tillyorn, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Young, B.
Young of Old Scone, B.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Hereford.

Judicial Business

1.Adams and another (FC) (Petitioners) v. Rhymney Valley District Council (Respondents)—The petition of William Russell Adams and Beverley Sian Adams praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee. The petitioners’ certificates of public funding were lodged (lodged 21st August).
2.In re Weiss (Petitioner) (application for a writ of Habeas Corpus)—The petition of Peter Weiss praying for an extension of time within which the petition may be lodged and for leave to appeal in accordance with the Administration of Justice Act 1960 was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee.
3.Zoan (Petitioner) v. Rouamba (Respondent)—Upon application by the petitioner (the agents for the respondent consenting thereto), it was ordered that the petition be withdrawn and that there be no order as to costs.
4.Regina v. Braintree District Council (Petitioners) ex parte Halls (A.P.) (Respondent)—The respondents legal aid certificate was lodged.
5.Appeal Committee—The 67th Report from the Appeal Committee was agreed to and the following Orders were made—

Ashworth Frazer Limited (Respondents) v. Gloucester City Council (Petitioners)—That the respondents be invited to lodge objections by 23rd October next.

Mahomed and another (Petitioners) v. Morris and others (Respondents)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondents be at liberty to apply for their costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d) and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Margulies (Petitioner) v. Margulies and others (Respondents)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondents be at liberty to apply for their costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d) and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Regina v. Forbes (Petitioner)—That the respondents be invited to lodge objections by 23rd October next.

Sinochem International Oil (London) Co Limited (Petitioners) v. Mobil Sales and Supply Corporation (Respondents) and others—That the respondents be invited to lodge objections by 23rd October next.

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Regina v. Braintree District Council (Petitioners) ex parte Halls (A.P.) (Respondent)—That leave to appeal be refused; and that the costs of the respondent be taxed in accordance with the Legal Aid Act 1988.

Regina v. Secretary of State for the Home Department (Respondent) ex parte Turgut (A.P.) (Petitioner)—That the respondent be invited to lodge objections by 23rd October next.

Farley (Petitioner) v. Skinner (Respondent)—That the respondent be invited to lodge objections by 23rd October next.

Papers

6.Statutory Instruments (Standing Order 68)—The following negative instruments, having been laid before the House on 6th October, were ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Personal Pension Schemes (Payments by Employers) Regulations 2000, laid under the Pensions Schemes Act 1993;
 (2692)
2.Social Security Cold Weather Payments (General) Amendment Regulations 2000, laid under the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992;
 (2690)
3.Chippenham, Lackham and Trowbridge Colleges (Dissolution) Order 2000, laid under the Further and Higher Education Act 1992;
 (2728)
4.Education Transfer Council (Winding up) Regulations 2000, laid under the School Standards and Framework Act 1998.
 (2729)
7.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1. (i)Immigration Services Commissioner (Registration Fee) Order 2000—(2735)
(ii)Immigration Services Tribunal Rules 2000—(2739)
 laid under the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999;
2.Civil Courts (Amendment No. 2) Order 2000, laid under the Supreme Court Act 1981;

(2738)

3.Social Security (Contributions) (Amendment No. 10) (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2000, laid under the Social Security Contributions and Benefits (Northern Ireland) Act 1992;
 (2743)
4.Social Security (Contributions) (Amendment No. 10) Regulations 2000, laid under the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992.
 (2744)
8.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Immigration (Designation of Travel Bans) Order 2000, laid under the Immigration Act 1971;
 (2724)
2.Report for 1999–2000 of the Deer Commission for Scotland, laid under the Deer (Scotland) Act 1996;
3.Report for 1999–2000 of the Sportscotland Lottery Fund, laid under the National Lottery etc. Act 1993.

Public Business

9.Health Services Commissioners (Amendment) Bill—It was ordered that the Explanatory Notes relating to the bill be printed. (HL Bill 75–EN)
10.Fur Farming (Prohibition) Bill—The order of commitment of 19th July was discharged and the bill was committed to a Grand Committee.
11.Countryside and Rights of Way Bill—The House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; amendments were agreed to; an amendment was disagreed to (see division list 1); the House was resumed.
12.Environmental Court—The Lord Brennan asked Her Majesty’s Government whether they propose to establish a specialist Environmental Court for England and Wales; after debate, the question was answered by the Lord Bach.
13.Countryside and Rights of Way Bill—The House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; amendments were agreed to; amendments were disagreed to (see division lists 2 and 3); the House was resumed after amendment 370A.

The House was adjourned at ten minutes before midnight
till tomorrow, half-past two o’clock.

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DIVISIONS

Division No. 1

COUNTRYSIDE AND RIGHTS OF WAY BILL

It was moved by the Lord Glentoran, in Schedule 5, page 60, line 18, at end to insert:

(“ . After section 134(9) of the 1980 Act there is inserted—

“(10) All references in this section to a footpath or bridleway shall include a restricted byway.””);

which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the Committee divided:

Contents.............54

Not-Contents.............119

CONTENTS

Attlee, E.
Biffen, L.
Blackwell, L.
Blatch, B.
Bridgeman, V. [Teller]
Buscombe, B.
Byford, B.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Chalker of Wallasey, B.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Craigavon, V.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Elton, L.
Fookes, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Glentoran, L.
Harris of Peckham, L.
Henley, L. [Teller]
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Hooper, B.
Jopling, L.
Kimball, L.
Kingsland, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Luke, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Marlesford, L.
Monson, L.
Moynihan, L.
Northesk, E.
O’Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Peel, E.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Rawlings, B.
Renton, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L.
Wilcox, B.
Willoughby de Broke, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Amos, B.
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Bach, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Berkeley, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blease, L.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Bridges, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Burlison, L.
Carter, L. [Teller]
Chandos, V.
Christopher, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Craig of Radley, L.
Crawley, B.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Desai, L.
Dixon, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Elder, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Gale, B.
Geraint, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Goldsmith, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Grenfell, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harrison, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Hooson, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)
Islwyn, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
(Lord Privy Seal)
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Judd, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lipsey, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller]
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mallalieu, B.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Molloy, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Nicol, B.
Orme, L.
Perry of Walton, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Powell of Bayswater, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Rea, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shepherd, L.
Sheppard of Liverpool, L.
Simon, V.

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Slim, V.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tordoff, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Varley, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Warner, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Young of Old Scone, B.

Division No. 2

COUNTRYSIDE AND RIGHTS OF WAY BILL

It was moved by the Baroness Byford, in Clause 52, page 32, line 32, to leave out (“2026”) and insert (“2016”); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the Committee divided:

Contents.............31

Not-Contents.............57

CONTENTS

Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Blatch, B.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Byford, B.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Glentoran, L.
Henley, L. [Teller]
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Jopling, L.
Kimball, L.
Kingsland, L.
Luke, L.
Mancroft, L.
Marlesford, L.
Northbourne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
O’Cathain, B. [Teller]
Palmer, L.
Peel, E.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Selborne, E.
Skelmersdale, L.
Strange, B.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Willoughby de Broke, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Addington, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Bach, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Blackstone, B.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Burlison, L.
Carter, L. [Teller]
Chandos, V.
Crawley, B.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Desai, L.
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Filkin, L.
Gale, B.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Goldsmith, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Hoyle, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)
Judd, L.
Layard, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller]
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mallalieu, B.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Puttnam, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
St. John of Bletso, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Simon, V.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Young of Old Scone, B.

Division No. 3

COUNTRYSIDE AND RIGHTS OF WAY BILL

It was moved by the Baroness Byford, in Clause 52, page 32, line 35, to leave out paragraph (a); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the Committee divided:

Contents.............30

Not-Contents.............56

CONTENTS

Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Blatch, B.
Bridgeman, V. [Teller]
Bridges, L.
Byford, B.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Glentoran, L.
Henley, L. [Teller]
Hunt of Wirral, L.

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Jopling, L.
Kimball, L.
Kingsland, L.
Luke, L.
Mancroft, L.
Marlesford, L.
Northbourne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
O’Cathain, B.
Palmer, L.
Peel, E.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Selborne, E.
Skelmersdale, L.
Strange, B.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Willoughby de Broke, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Addington, L.
Amos, B.
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Bach, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Blackstone, B.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Burlison, L.
Carter, L. [Teller]
Chandos, V.
Crawley, B.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Desai, L.
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Filkin, L.
Gale, B.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Goldsmith, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Hoyle, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)
Judd, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller]
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mallalieu, B.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Patel, L.
Puttnam, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Sawyer, L.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Simon, V.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Young of Old Scone, B.