House of Lords Journal 233 (Session 1999-00)


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Monday 10 July 2000

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Alderdice, L.
Alexander of Weedon, L.
Allen of Abbeydale, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Andrews, B.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Arran, E.
Astor, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Biffen, L.
Billingham, B.
Birt, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blackwell, L.
Blatch, B.
Blease, L.
Blood, B.
Boardman, L.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bragg, L.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Brightman, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookeborough, V.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Burns, L.
Butterworth, L.
Buxton of Alsa, L.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carnarvon, E.
Carter, L.
Chalfont, L.
Chandos, V.
Christopher , L.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cowdrey of Tonbridge, L.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Cranborne, V.
Crathorne, L.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Cuckney, L.
Dahrendorf, L.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Denham, L.
Desai, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Dundee, E.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elder, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Ewing of Kirkford, L.
Ezra, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Ferrers, E.
Filkin, L.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freyberg, L.
Gale, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Gavron, L.
Geddes, L.
Geraint, L.
Gibson, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gilbert, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Glentoran, L.
Gloucester, Bp.
Goodhart, L.
Goschen, V.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Grabiner, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greengross, B.
Greenway, L.
Gregson, L.
Grenfell, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanningfield, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harrison, L.
Haskel, L.
Haslam, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Hogg, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Holderness, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Hooper, B.
Howe, E.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.

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Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Tanworth, L.
Hussey of North Bradley, L.
Hylton, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Islwyn, L.
Jacobs, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jauncey of Tullichettle, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeger, B.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jopling, L.
Judd, L.
Kimball, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Laing of Dunphail, L.
Laird, L.
Laming, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lawson of Blaby, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Lipsey, L.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Longford, E.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McConnell, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
Macfarlane of Bearsden, L.
McFarlane of Llandaff, B.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
MacLaurin of Knebworth, L.
McNally, L.
Mallalieu, B.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Mishcon, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Moore of Wolvercote, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moynihan, L.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicol, B.
Northbourne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patel, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Peel, E.
Perry of Walton, L.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plumb, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prior, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Renwick of Clifton, L.
Richard, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogers of Riverside, L.
Roper, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Russell, E.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Saatchi, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selkirk of Douglas, L.
Sewel, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shepherd, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Slim, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stern, B.
Stewartby, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Tugendhat, L.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.
Warner, L.
Warnock, B.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Wilcox, B.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Winston, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Young, B.
Young of Dartington, L.

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PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Gloucester.

Judicial Business

1.Islam and another (A.P.) (Appellants) and another v. Director of Public Prosecutions (Respondent) (On Appeal from a Divisional Court of the Queens Bench Division)—
2.Islam and another and another (A.P.) (Appellant) v. Director of Public Prosecutions (Respondent) (On Appeal from a Divisional Court of the Queens Bench Division)—

The petition of the appellants praying that the appeals be conjoined, that they be allowed to lodge one statement and separate cases and one appendix in respect of the two appeals and be separately represented and that the respondent have leave to lodge one case in respect of the two appeals (the agents for the respondent consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed.

3.Warsame and another (Respondents) v. Mayor etc. of the London Borough of Hounslow (Appellants)—The petition of the appellants praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 28th August next or to the third sitting day after the next ensuing meeting of the House (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed.
4.Portman Building Society (Respondents) v. Bevan Ashford (a firm) (Petitioners) and others—Upon application by the petitioners (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto), it was ordered that the petition be withdrawn and that the petitioners do pay to the respondents the costs of the petition, the amount thereof to be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.
5.Molins plc (Respondents) v. G D SpA (Petitioners)—Upon application by the petitioners (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto), it was ordered that the petition be withdrawn and that there be no order as to costs.
6.Banner Homes Group plc (Respondents) v. Luff Developments Limited and others (Petitioners)—Upon application by the petitioners (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto), it was ordered that the petition be withdrawn and that there be no order as to costs.
7.Appeal Committee—The following Orders were made pursuant to the 51st Report:

Regina v. Secretary of State for the Home Department (Respondent) ex parte Daly (A.P.) (Petitioner)—That leave to appeal be given, and that the petition of appeal be lodged by 24th July next.

Humphreys and others (Respondents) v. Chancellor, Masters and Scholars of the University of Oxford (Petitioners)—That the petition be referred for hearing.

Monsanto plc (Respondents) v. Tilly and others (Petitioners) and others and one other action—That the petition be referred for hearing.

8.Appeal Committee—The following Order was made pursuant to the 53rd Report:

Regina v. Secretary of State for the Environment, Transport and the Regions and another (Petitioners) ex parte Spath Holme Limited (Respondents)—That leave to appeal be given on terms that the petitioners do pay the respondents’ costs before this House in any event, that the petitioners do not seek to disturb the Order for costs made in the Court of Appeal; and that the petition of appeal be lodged by 24th July next.

Papers

9.Command Papers—The following papers were presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Energy—Energy Charter Treaty and Energy Charter Protocol on Energy Efficiency and Related Environmental Aspects;
 (4761)
2.Crime—Agreement between the United Kingdom and Australia concerning the Investigation, Restraint and Confiscation of the Proceeds and Instruments of Crime.

(4760)

10.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1. (i)Beet Seeds (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2000—(1791)
(ii)Cereal Seeds (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2000—(1793)
(iii)Fodder Plant Seeds (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2000—(1792)
(iv)Oil and Fibre Plant Seeds (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2000—(1789)
(v)Seed Potatoes (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2000—(1788)

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(vi)Vegetable Seeds (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2000—(1790)
 laid under the Plant Varieties and Seeds Act 1964;
2. (i)Legal Aid (Notification of Very High Cost Cases) Regulations 2000—(1801)
(ii)Legal Aid in Criminal and Care Proceedings (Costs) (Amendment) Regulations 2000—(1802)
 laid under the Legal Aid Act 1988;
3. (i)Royal Marines Terms of Service (Amendment) Regulations 2000—(1772)
(ii)Royal Navy Terms of Service (Ratings) (Amendment) Regulations 2000—(1771)
 laid under the Armed Forces Act 1966;
4.Motor Cars (Driving Instruction) (Amendment) Regulations 2000, laid under the Road Traffic Act 1988;
 (1805)
5.Criminal Justice (Northern Ireland) Order 1996 (Extension of Group A Offences) Order 2000, laid under the Criminal Justice (Northern Ireland) Order 1996.
 (—)
11.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.7th Report of the Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration: Investigation into delays in making payments under the Arable Area Payments Scheme, laid under the Parliamentary Commissioner Act 1967;
2.Accounts for 1999–2000 of the Museums and Galleries Commission, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Museums and Galleries Act 1992;
3.Account for 1998–99 of CfBT/Lambeth Education Action Zone, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the School Standards and Framework Act 1998;
4.Account for 1999–2000 of the Higher Education Funding Council for England, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Further and Higher Education Act 1992;
5.Report for 1999–2000 of the Legal Services Ombudsman: Demanding Progress, laid under the Courts and Legal Services Act 1990.

Select Committee Report

12.Science and Technology—It was ordered that the evidence taken by Sub-Committee I (Complementary and Alternative Medicine) on 16th May be printed. (HL Paper 48–xii)

Public Business

13.Sea Fishing Grants (Charges) Bill—The order of commitment was discharged.
14.Transport Bill—The House again resolved itself into a Committee (on re-commitment) upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; an amendment was disagreed to (see division list); the House was resumed after clause 161 stood part.

The House was adjourned at twenty-eight minutes before midnight
till tomorrow, half-past two o’clock.


DIVISION

TRANSPORT BILL

It was moved by the Lord Dixon-Smith in page 67, line 38, at end to insert:

(“( ) Guidance issued under this section shall be confined to that necessary to ensure consistency of information and presentation within plans, and consistency between plans and with national policy.”); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the Committee divided:

Contents.............71

Not-Contents.............130

CONTENTS

Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Blackwell, L.
Blatch, B.
Boardman, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Burnham, L. [Teller]
Byford, B.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Cranborne, V.
Crathorne, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.

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Denham, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Ferrers, E.
Fookes, B.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goschen, V.
Gray of Contin, L.
Haslam, L.
Henley, L. [Teller]
Higgins, L.
Hooper, B.
Howe, E.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Lawson of Blaby, L.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McConnell, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Moynihan, L.
Northesk, E.
Norton of Louth, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Plumb, L.
Rees, L.
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Seccombe, B.
Selkirk of Douglas, L.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Young, B.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Amos, B.
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Bach, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blease, L.
Borrie, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bragg, L.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Burlison, L.
Carter, L. [Teller]
Christopher, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Crawley, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Desai, L.
Dixon, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Gale, B.
Gavron, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gilbert, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Grabiner, L.
Grenfell, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harrison, L.
Hayman, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)
Islwyn, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
(Lord Privy Seal)
Jeger, B.
Judd, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Laird, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lipsey, L.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller]
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mallalieu, B.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marsh, L.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Nicol, B.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Perry of Walton, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Renwick of Clifton, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Sewel, L.
Shepherd, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tordoff, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Warner, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Weatherill, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.