House of Lords Journal 233 (Session 1999-00)

Previous Next Page 450 1999-00 Volume 233       Thursday 8 June 2000 The House met at two o’clock. The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present: Ackner, L. Addington, L. Alderdice, L. Aldington, L. Alexander of Weedon, L. Allenby of Megiddo, V. Alli, L. Alton of Liverpool, L. Amos, B. Ampthill, L. Andrews, B. Anelay of St Johns, B. Archer of Sandwell, L. Ashley of Stoke, L. Ashton of Upholland, B. Astor, V. Astor of Hever, L. Attlee, E. Avebury, L. Bach, L. Barber, L. Barker, B. Barnett, L. Bassam of Brighton, L. Beaumont of Whitley, L. Berkeley, L. Bernstein of Craigweil, L. Billingham, B. Bingham of Cornhill, L. Birt, L. Blackstone, B. Blackwell, L. Blaker, L. Blatch, B. Blease, L. Boardman, L. Borrie, L. Boston of Faversham, L. Bowness, L. Brabazon of Tara, L. Bradshaw, L. Brennan, L. Bridges, L. Brooke of Alverthorpe, L. Brookman, L. Brooks of Tremorfa, L. Brougham and Vaux, L. Bruce of Donington, L. Burlison, L. Burnham, L. Burns, L. Buscombe, B. Butler of Brockwell, L. Butterworth, L. Byford, B. Caithness, E. Campbell of Alloway, L. Campbell of Croy, L. Carnegy of Lour, B. Carter, L. Carver, L. Castle of Blackburn, B. Chadlington, L. Chalfont, L. Chandos, V. Christopher, L. Clark of Kempston, L. Clarke of Hampstead, L. Cledwyn of Penrhos, L. Clement-Jones, L. Clinton-Davis, L. Cockfield, L. Cocks of Hartcliffe, L. Coe, L. Cohen of Pimlico, B. Colville of Culross, V. Colwyn, L. Courtown, E. Cox, B. Craig of Radley, L. Craigavon, V. Crickhowell, L. Cuckney, L. Cumberlege, B. Currie of Marylebone, L. David, B. Davies of Coity, L. Davies of Oldham, L. Dean of Harptree, L. Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B. Dearing, L. Denham, L. Desai, L. Dholakia, L. Diamond, L. Dixon-Smith, L. Donoughue, L. Dormand of Easington, L. Dubs, L. Eatwell, L. Eden of Winton, L. Elder, L. Elles, B. Elliott of Morpeth, L. Elton, L. Erroll, E. Evans of Parkside, L. Evans of Watford, L. Ezra, L. Falkland, V. Farrington of Ribbleton, B. Faulkner of Worcester, L. Ferrers, E. Filkin, L. Fitt, L. Flather, B. Fookes, B. Fyfe of Fairfield, L. Gale, B. Gardner of Parkes, B. Garel-Jones, L. Geddes, L. Geraint, L. Gibson of Market Rasen, B. Gilbert, L. Gilmour of Craigmillar, L. Gladwin of Clee, L. Glenarthur, L. Goff of Chieveley, L. Goodhart, L. Goschen, V. Goudie, B. Gould of Potternewton, B. Grabiner, L. Graham of Edmonton, L. Gray of Contin, L. Greaves, L. Greengross, B. Grenfell, L. Guildford, Bp. Hamwee, B. Hanham, B. Hanningfield, L. Harris of Greenwich, L. Harris of Haringey, L. Harris of Richmond, B. Harrison, L. Haskel, L. Hayhoe, L. Hayman, B. Henley, L. Higgins, L. Hilton of Eggardon, B. Hobhouse of Woodborough, L. Hogg, B. Hollis of Heigham, B. Home, E. Hooson, L. Hope of Craighead, L. Howe, E. Howell of Guildford, L. Howells of St. Davids, B. Howie of Troon, L. Hoyle, L. Hughes of Woodside, L. Hunt of Chesterton, L. Hunt of Kings Heath, L. Hunt of Wirral, L. Hutton, L. Hylton-Foster, B. Jacobs, L. Janner of Braunstone, L. Jay of Paddington, B. Jeger, B. Jellicoe, E. Jenkin of Roding, L. Jenkins of Hillhead, L. Jenkins of Putney, L. Joffe, L. Judd, L. Kennedy of The Shaws, B. Kimball, L. Kingsland, L. Page 451 1999-00 Volume 233 Back to top Kirkhill, L. Knight of Collingtree, B. Laird, L. Laming, L. Lamont of Lerwick, L. Layard, L. Lea of Crondall, L. Lester of Herne Hill, L. Linklater of Butterstone, B. Lipsey, L. Listowel, E. Liverpool, E. Lofthouse of Pontefract, L. Longford, E. Lovell-Davis, L. Lucas, L. Luke, L. Lyell, L. McColl of Dulwich, L. Macdonald of Tradeston, L. McIntosh of Haringey, L. McIntosh of Hudnall, B. Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L. Mackay of Clashfern, L. MacKenzie of Culkein, L. Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L. MacLaurin of Knebworth, L. McNally, L. Mallalieu, B. Mar, C. Mar and Kellie, E. Marlesford, L. Marsh, L. Masham of Ilton, B. Mason of Barnsley, L. Massey of Darwen, B. Mayhew of Twysden, L. Merlyn-Rees, L. Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B. Miller of Hendon, B. Milner of Leeds, L. Mishcon, L. Mitchell, L. Molloy, L. Molyneaux of Killead, L. Monson, L. Montagu of Beaulieu, L. Montrose, D. Moore of Wolvercote, L. Morris of Castle Morris, L. Morris of Manchester, L. Mowbray and Stourton, L. Moynihan, L. Murray of Epping Forest, L. Murton of Lindisfarne, L. Naseby, L. Newby, L. Newton of Braintree, L. Norfolk, D. Northbrook, L. Northesk, E. Northover, B. Norton of Louth, L. O’Cathain, B. Onslow, E. Oppenheim-Barnes, B. Oxford, Bp. Oxfuird, V. Park of Monmouth, B. Patel of Blackburn, L. Patten, L. Paul, L. Pearson of Rannoch, L. Peel, E. Perry of Southwark, B. Peston, L. Phillips of Sudbury, L. Pike, B. Pilkington of Oxenford, L. Pitkeathley, B. Platt of Writtle, B. Plumb, L. Plummer of St. Marylebone, L. Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L. Portsmouth, Bp. Prys-Davies, L. Puttnam, L. Quirk, L. Ramsay of Cartvale, B. Randall of St. Budeaux, L. Rawlings, B. Rawlinson of Ewell, L. Rea, L. Reay, L. Redesdale, L. Rees, L. Rees-Mogg, L. Rendell of Babergh, B. Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L. Rennard, L. Renton, L. Richard, L. Richardson of Calow, B. Rix, L. Roberts of Conwy, L. Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L. Rogan, L. Roper, L. Russell, E. Ryder of Warsaw, B. Ryder of Wensum, L. Sainsbury of Turville, L. St. John of Bletso, L. St. John of Fawsley, L. Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly. Sanderson of Bowden, L. Sandwich, E. Scotland of Asthal, B. Scott of Needham Market, B. Seccombe, B. Selborne, E. Sharman, L. Sharp of Guildford, B. Sharples, B. Shaw of Northstead, L. Shepherd, L. Shore of Stepney, L. Shrewsbury, E. Shutt of Greetland, L. Simon, V. Simon of Glaisdale, L. Skelmersdale, L. Slim, V. Smith of Clifton, L. Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L. Stern, B. Stoddart of Swindon, L. Stone of Blackheath, L. Strabolgi, L. Strange, B. Strathclyde , L. Swinfen, L. Taverne, L. Taylor of Blackburn, L. Taylor of Gryfe, L. Taylor of Warwick, L. Thomas of Gresford, L. Thomas of Gwydir, L. Thomas of Walliswood, B. Thomson of Monifieth, L. Thornton, B. Tomlinson, L. Tope, L. Tordoff, L. Trefgarne, L. Turnberg, L. Turner of Camden, B. Uddin, B. Vivian, L. Waddington, L. Wade of Chorlton, L. Walker of Doncaster, L. Walmsley, B. Walpole, L. Walton of Detchant, L. Warner, L. Warnock, B. Warwick of Undercliffe, B. Watson of Richmond, L. Waverley, V. Weatherill, L. Wedderburn of Charlton, L. Whitaker, B. Whitty, L. Wigoder, L. Wilberforce, L. Wilcox, B. Wilkins, B. Williams of Crosby, B. Williams of Elvel, L. Williams of Mostyn, L. Wilson of Tillyorn, L. Windlesham, L. Woolmer of Leeds, L. Young, B. Young of Old Scone, B. Page 452 1999-00 Volume 233 Back to top PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Guildford. Judicial Business 1. Regina v. P and others (Appellants) (On Appeal from the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division))—The Report from the Appellate Committee was agreed to; it was ordered and adjudged that the Order of the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division) of 19th April last be affirmed and the appeal dismissed; that the first certified question be answered in the affirmative and the second in the negative. 2. Harris (A.P.) (Petitioner) v. Bolt Burdon (a firm) (Respondents)—The petition of Elizabeth Harris praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee. The petitioner’s legal aid certificate was lodged (lodged 5th June). 3. Aldridge (A.P.) (Petitioner) v. Edwards (Respondent)—The petition of Wendy Aldridge praying for leave to appeal notwithstanding that the time limited by Standing Order II has expired was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee. The petitioner’s legal aid certificate was lodged. The House was adjourned during pleasure. The House was resumed. Papers 4. Command Paper—The following paper was presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table: Pay Review Bodies—Supplement to the 29th Report of the Armed Forces’ Pay Review Body: Service Medical and Dental Officers. (4566) 5. Affirmative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table: 1. Draft London Local Authorities (Charges for Stopping Up Orders) Regulations 2000; 2. Draft Northern Ireland Act 1998 (Designation of Public Authorities) Order 2000. 6. Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table: 1. (i) Infant Formula and Follow–on Formula (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2000— (1509) (ii) Processed Cereal–based Foods and Baby Foods for Infants and Young Children (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2000— (1510)   laid under the Food Safety Act 1990; 2. Highway Litter Clearance and Cleaning (Transfer Of Responsibility) (A13 Trunk Road) Order 2000, laid under the Environmental Protection Act 1990;   (1508) 3. Disabled Persons (Badges for Motor Vehicles) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2000, laid under the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act 1970;   (1507) 4. (i) Transport for London (Transitional Provisions) (Croydon Tramlink) Order 2000— (1506) (ii) Greater London (Penalty Fares) (Croydon Tramlink Designation) Order 2000— (1442)   laid under the Greater London Authority Act 1999; 5. (i) Undersized Spider Crabs Order 2000— (1502) (ii) Undersized Lobsters Order 2000— (1503)   laid under the Sea Fish (Conservation) Act 1967; 6. Community Legal Service (Funding) (Amendment) Order 2000, laid under the Access to Justice Act 1999.   (1541) 7. Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table: 1. Report and Accounts for 1999–2000 of the Meteorological Office, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Government Trading Funds Act 1973; 2. Accounts for 1998–99 of the Funding Agency for Schools, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Education Act 1996; 3. Account for 1998–99 of the Sheffield North East Education Action Zone, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the School Standards and Framework Act 1998. Page 453 1999-00 Volume 233 Back to top Private Business 8. Alliance & Leicester Group Treasury plc (Transfer) Bill [HL]—The bill was reported from the Unopposed Bill Committee with amendments. Public Business 9. Utilities Bill—It was moved by the Lord McIntosh of Haringey that it be an instruction to the Committee of the Whole House to whom the Utilities Bill has been committed that they consider the bill in the following order: Clause 1 Schedule 1 Clause 2 Schedule 2 Clauses 4 to 9 Clause 13 Clause 10 Clause 14 Clause 11 Clause 15 Clause 12 Clause 16 Clauses 17 to 28 Clause 74 Clause 85 Clauses 29 to 31 Clause 73 Clauses 32 to 39 Clauses 80 to 82 Clause 40 Clause 84 Clause 41 Clause 86 Clause 42 Clause 87 Clauses 43 to 50 Schedule 4 Clause 83 Clause 51 Schedule 5 Clause 52 Clause 88 Clause 53 Clause 89 Clause 54 Clause 90 Clause 55 Clause 91 Clause 56 Clause 92 Clause 57 Clause 93 Clause 58 Clause 94 Clause 59 Clause 95 Clause 60 Clause 96 Clauses 61 to 68 Clause 97 Clause 69 Clause 98 Clauses 70 to 72 Clause 101 Clauses 75 to 79 Clauses 99 and 100 Clause 102 Clause 3 Schedule 3 Clauses 103 to 105 Schedules 6 to 8 Clauses 106 and 107; the motion was agreed to. 10. Postal Services Bill—It was moved by the Lord Sainsbury of Turville that the House do now resolve itself into a Committee upon the bill; after debate, the motion was objected to; on question, tellers for the not-contents not having been appointed, the motion was agreed to pursuant to Standing Order 53; the House accordingly resolved itself into a Committee; amendments were agreed to; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; an amendment was disagreed to (see division list); the House was resumed. 11. Tobin Tax—The Lord Judd asked Her Majesty’s Government whether they will undertake an official inquiry into the practicability of an international tax on currency transfers (Tobin Tax) as a means of mobilising funds for world development; after debate, the question was answered by the Lord McIntosh of Haringey. 12. Postal Services Bill—The House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the House) withdrawn; amendments were agreed to; amendment 69 was moved, objected to and on question, fewer than 30 Lords having voted (see division list 2), the question was declared not decided and the House was resumed pursuant to Standing Order 57. The House was adjourned at twelve minutes before eleven o’clock to Monday next, half-past two o’clock. Page 454 1999-00 Volume 233 Back to top DIVISIONS Division No. 1 POSTAL SERVICES BILL It was moved by the Baroness Miller of Hendon, in Clause 4, page 2, line 34, after (“tariff”) to insert (“including first and second class pricing”); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the Committee divided: Contents.............62 Not-Contents.............134 CONTENTS Alton of Liverpool, L. Anelay of St. Johns, B. Astor of Hever, L. Attlee, E. Blaker, L. Blatch, B. Bowness, L. Brabazon of Tara, L. Brougham and Vaux, L. Burnham, L. [Teller] Buscombe, B. Byford, B. Campbell of Alloway, L. Carnegy of Lour, B. Chadlington, L. Courtown, E. Cox, B. Cumberlege, B. Denham, L. Dixon-Smith, L. Eden of Winton, L. Elliott of Morpeth, L. Elton, L. Flather, B. Fookes, B. Gardner of Parkes, B. Goschen, V. Hanham, B Henley, L. [Teller] Higgins, L. Hogg, B. Howe, E. Jenkin of Roding, L. Lucas, L. Luke, L. Lyell, L. Mayhew of Twysden, L. Miller of Hendon, B. Mowbray and Stourton, L. Moynihan, L. Murton of Lindisfarne, L. Naseby, L. Northbrook, L. Northesk, E. Norton of Louth, L. Onslow, E. Oppenheim-Barnes, B. Park of Monmouth, B. Pearson of Rannoch, L. Perry of Southwark, B. Plummer of St. Marylebone, L. Rees, L. Renton, L. Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly. Seccombe, B. Sharples, B. Skelmersdale, L. Strathclyde, L. Thomas of Gwydir, L. Vivian, L. Wade of Chorlton, L. Young, B. NOT-CONTENTS Alli, L. Amos, B. Andrews. B. Archer of Sandwell, L. Ashley of Stoke, L. Ashton of Upholland, B. Bach, L. Barker, B. Bassam of Brighton, L. Berkeley, L. Billingham, B. Blackstone, B. Borrie, L. Brookman, L. Bruce of Donington, L. Burlison, L. Carter, L. [Teller] Chandos, V. Christopher, L. Clarke of Hampstead, L. Clinton-Davis, L. Cocks of Hartcliffe, L. Cohen of Pimlico, B. David, B. Davies of Coity, L. Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B. Desai, L. Dholakia, L. Diamond, L. Donoughue, L. Dormand of Easington, L. Dubs, L. Elder, L. Evans of Watford, L. Farrington of Ribbleton, B. Filkin, L. Gale, B. Geraint, L. Gibson of Market Rasen, B. Gladwin of Clee, L. Goodhart, L. Gould of Potternewton, B. Grabiner, L. Graham of Edmonton, L. Greaves, L. Grenfell, L. Harris of Greenwich, L. Harris of Haringey, L. Harris of Richmond, B. Harrison, L. Haskel, L. Hayman, B. Hilton of Eggardon, B. Hollis of Heigham, B. Howells of St Davids, B. Howie of Troon, L. Hoyle, L. Hughes of Woodside, L. Hunt of Chesterton, L. Hunt of Kings Heath, L. Hylton-Foster, B. Jacobs, L. Jay of Paddington, B. (Lord Privy Seal) Jeger, B. Jenkins of Putney, L. Judd, L. Kennedy of The Shaws, B. Kirkhill, L. Layard, L. Lea of Crondall, L. Linklater of Butterstone, B. Lipsey, L. Longford, E. Lovell-Davis, L. Macdonald of Tradeston, L. McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller] McIntosh of Hudnall, B. MacKenzie of Culkein, L. McNally, L. Mallalieu, B. Mar and Kellie, E. Massey of Darwen, B. Milner of Leeds, L. Mishcon, L. Mitchell, L. Molloy, L. Monson, L. Morris of Castle Morris, L. Morris of Manchester, L. Newby, L. Phillips of Sudbury, L. Pitkeathley, B. Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L. Prys-Davies, L. Puttnam, L. Page 455 1999-00 Volume 233 Back to top Ramsay of Cartvale, B. Rea, L. Redesdale, L. Rendell of Babergh, B. Richard, L. Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L. Roper, L. Sainsbury of Turville, L. Sharman, L. Sharp of Guildford, B. Shore of Stepney, L. Simon, V. Smith of Clifton, L. Stoddart of Swindon, L. Stone of Blackheath, L. Strabolgi, L. Taverne, L. Taylor of Blackburn, L. Thomas of Walliswood, B. Thomson of Monifieth, L. Thornton, B. Tomlinson, L. Tope, L. Tordoff, L. Turnberg, L. Turner of Camden, B. Uddin, B. Walker of Doncaster, L. Walmsley, B. Weatherill, L. Wedderburn of Charlton, L. Whitaker, B. Whitty, L. Wilkins, B. Williams of Crosby, B. Williams of Elvel, L. Williams of Mostyn, L. Woolmer of Leeds, L. Young of Old Scone, B. Division No. 2 POSTAL SERVICES BILL It was moved by the Baroness Miller of Hendon, after Clause 67, to insert the new Clause (Publication of particulars of acquisitions and disposals); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the Committee divided: Contents.............5 Not-Contents.............24 CONTENTS Goschen, V. Henley, L. [Teller] Miller of Hendon, B. Northbrook, L. [Teller] Wilcox, B. NOT-CONTENTS Amos, B. Bach, L. Berkeley, L. Burlison, L. Carter, L. [Teller] Dearing, L. Desai, L. Elder, L. Farrington of Ribbleton, B. [Teller] Gilbert, L. Grenfell, L. Harrison, L. Howells of St Davids, B. Lea of Crondall, L. McIntosh of Haringey, L. Mallalieu, B. Mishcon, L. Puttnam, L. Ramsay of Cartvale, B. Rendell of Babergh, B. Sainsbury of Turville, L. Sharman, L. Simon, V. Whitty, L.