House of Lords Journal 233 (Session 1999-00)

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Wednesday 7 June 2000

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Ackner, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Allen of Abbeydale, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St Johns, B.

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Archer of Sandwell, L.
Arran, E.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Astor, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Bellwin, L.
Billingham, B.
Birt, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blackwell, L.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Blease, L.
Bledisloe, V.
Boardman, L.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradford, Bp.
Bradshaw, L.
Bragg, L.
Bramall, L.
Brennan, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butterworth , L.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carnarvon, E.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carr of Hadley, L.
Carrington, L.
Carter, L.
Chalfont, L.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Colwyn, L.
Cooke of Islandreagh, L.
Cooke of Thorndon, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cowdrey of Tonbridge, L.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Cranborne, V.
Crathorne, L.
Crickhowell, L.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Dahrendorf, L.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Denham, L.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donaldson of Lymington, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Eatwell, L.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elder, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Ezra, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Feldman, L.
Ferrers, E.
Filkin, L.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Freeman, L.
Freyberg, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Geddes, L.
Geraint, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gilbert, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goodhart, L.
Goschen, V.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Grabiner, L.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greaves, L.
Greengross, B.
Grenfell, L.
Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Guildford, Bp.
Habgood, L.
Hanham, B.
Hanningfield, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of High Cross, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Haskel, L.
Haslam, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Healey, L.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Hooson, L.
Howe, E.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Hussey of North Bradley, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Jacobs, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeger, B.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Joffe, L.
Jopling, L.
Kimball, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kirkham, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Laird, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Lewis of Newnham, L.
Lindsay, E.
Lipsey, L.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Longford, E.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McConnell, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackay of Drumadoon, L.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
MacLaurin of Knebworth, L.
McNally, L.
Mar, C.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.

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Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Mishcon, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montrose, D.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moynihan, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Naseby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicol, B.
Northbourne, L.
Northesk, E.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
O’Cathain, B.
O’Neill of Bengarve, B.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Owen, L.
Oxfuird, V.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Patten, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pike, B.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Porter of Luddenham, L.
Powell of Bayswater, L.
Prashar, B.
Puttnam, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rawlings, B.
Rawlinson of Ewell, L.
Rea, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Renton of Mount Harry, L.
Richard, L.
Richardson of Calow, B.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Roll of Ipsden, L.
Roper, L.
Russell , E.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
St. Albans, Bp.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandberg, L.
Sanderson of Bowden, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Seccombe, B.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shepherd, L.
Sheppard of Liverpool, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Shrewsbury, E.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Simon of Highbury, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Slim, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Stern, B.
Stewartby, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde , L.
Swinfen, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Gryfe, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Tenby, V.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Swynnerton, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trumpington, B.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Varley, L.
Vinson, L.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wakeham, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Warnock, B.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Weidenfeld, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Wilcox, B.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Wilson of Tillyorn, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Young, B.
Young of Old Scone, B.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Guildford.

Judicial Business

1.Regina v. Tibbs (Petitioner)—The petition of John Paul Tibbs praying for leave to appeal in accordance with the Criminal Appeal Act 1968 was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee (lodged 28th February).


2.Command Paper—The following paper was presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:

Statistics—Framework for National Statistics.


3.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1. (i)Motor Cycles (Eye Protectors) (Amendment) Regulations 2000—(1489)
(ii)Motor Cycles (Protective Helmets) (Amendment) Regulations 2000—(1488)
 laid under the Road Traffic Act 1988;

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2. (i)London Transport Users’ Committee (Transitional Provisions) Order 2000—(1484)
(ii)Metropolitan Police (Capital Finance) Order 2000—(1474)
(iii)Regulation of Bus Services in Greater London (Transitional Provisions) Order 2000—(1462)
 laid under the Greater London Authority Act 1999;
3.Education (Student Support) Regulations 2000 (Amendment) Regulations 2000, laid under the Teaching and Higher Education Act 1998;
4.Draft Code of Practice proposed to be issued by the Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service (ACAS): Disciplinary and Grievance Procedures, laid under the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992;
5.Legal Aid in Criminal Proceedings (Costs) (Amendment) Rules (Northern Ireland) 2000, laid under the Legal Aid, Advice and Assistance (Northern Ireland) Order 1981.


4.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Report for 1999 by the Secretary of State for the Environment, Transport and the Regions under Section 18 of the New Roads and Streetworks Act 1991, laid under that Act;
2.Statement by the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport concerning the appointment of Sue Lawley as a member of the Board of the English Tourism Council for 3 years beginning on 1st June 2000, laid under the Development of Tourism Act 1969;
3.Accounts for 1999 of the General Dental Council, laid under the Dentists Act 1984.

Select Committee Reports

5.Delegated Powers and Deregulation—The following reports from the Select Committee were made and ordered to be printed:

18th Report, on the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Bill; (HL Paper 73)

19th Report, on the following bills:

 Carers and Disabled Children Bill;
 Psychotherapy Bill [HL];
 Divorce (Religious Marriages) Bill [HL];
 Utilities Bill—Government amendments for Committee stage;
 Postal Services Bill—Government amendments for Committee stage . (HL Paper 74)

Public Business

6.Railtrack (Waverley Station) Order Confirmation Bill—The bill was brought from the Commons, read a first time and (pursuant to the Private Legislation Procedure (Scotland) Act 1936) deemed to have been read a second time and reported from the Committee.
7.Business of the House—It was moved by the Baroness Jay of Paddington that the debates on the motions in the names of the Earl of Carnarvon and the Lord Bridges set down for today shall each be limited to 2 hours; the motion was agreed to.

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8. Transport Bill—It was moved by the Lord Whitty, on behalf of the Lord Macdonald of Tradeston, that it be an instruction to the Committee of the Whole House to whom the Transport Bill has been committed that they consider the bill in the following order:
Clauses 1 to 27
Schedules 1 and 2Clauses 28 to 30
Schedule 3
Clauses 31 to 33
Schedule 4
Clause 34
Schedule 5
Clauses 35 to 60
Schedule 6
Clause 61
Schedule 7
Clauses 62 to 89
Schedule 8
Clauses 90 to 94
Schedule 9
Clauses 95 to 141
Schedule 10
Clauses 142 to 149
Schedule 11
Clauses 150 to 179
Schedule 12
Clauses 180 to 187
Schedule 13
Clauses 188 to 192
Schedule 14
Clauses 193 to 199
Schedule 15
Clauses 200 to 203
Schedule 16
Clause 204
Schedule 17
Clause 205
Schedule 18
Clause 206
Schedule 19
Clause 207
Schedule 20
Clause 208
Schedule 21
Clauses 209 to 215
Schedule 22
Clauses 216 and 217
Schedule 23
Clauses 218 and 219
Schedule 24
Clauses 220 to 227
Schedule 25
Clauses 228 to 236
Schedule 26
Clauses 237 and 238
Schedule 27
Clause 239
Schedule 28
Clauses 240 to 242
Schedule 29
Clauses 243 to 247
Schedule 30
Clauses 248 to 253;

the motion was agreed to.

9.Housing in the South East (2-hour debate)—It was moved by the Earl of Carnarvon that there be laid before the House papers relating to the case for additional housing in London and the South East and the Government’s proposals for achieving their targets; after debate, the motion was (by leave of the House) withdrawn.
10.Trustee Bill [HL]—The bill was reported from a Grand Committee with amendments (see appendix); it was ordered that the bill be printed as amended. (HL Bill 80)
11.Coastal erosion (2-hour debate)—It was moved by the Lord Bridges that there be laid before the House papers relating to the long-term problems caused by coastal erosion; after debate, the motion was (by leave of the House) withdrawn.
12.Race Relations (Religious Discrimination) Bill [HL]—It was moved by the Lord Ahmed that the bill be now read a second time; after debate, the motion was agreed to and the bill was committed to a Committee of the Whole House.
13.Russia—The Lord Blaker asked Her Majesty’s Government whether the state of United Kingdom relations with Russia is satisfactory, in the light of the Presidential elections there; after debate, the question was answered by the Baroness Scotland of Asthal.

The House was adjourned at ten minutes before ten o’clock
till tomorrow, two o’clock for judicial business,
three o’clock for public business.



The Committee met at half-past three o’clock

Trustee Bill [HL]—The bill was considered in a Grand Committee; amendments were agreed to; it was ordered that the bill be reported with amendments.

The Committee was adjourned at twenty-four minutes past four o’clock