House of Lords Journal 233 (Session 1999-00)


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Tuesday 6 June 2000

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Alexander of Weedon, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Ampthill, L.
Andrews, B.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Billingham, B.
Birt, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blackwell, L.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Blease, L.
Bledisloe, V.
Blood, B.
Boardman, L.
Borrie, L.

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Boston of Faversham, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bragg, L.
Brennan, L.
Bridge of Harwich, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brookeborough, V.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Burns, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butler of Brockwell, L.
Butterfield, L.
Butterworth, L.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carnarvon, E.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carter, L.
Chalfont, L.
Chandos, V.
Christopher , L.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cowdrey of Tonbridge, L.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Cranborne, V.
Crathorne, L.
Crickhowell, L.
Dahrendorf, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Dearing, L.
Denham, L.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Eatwell, L.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Elder, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Ezra, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Ferrers, E.
Filkin, L.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Flowers, L.
Fookes, B.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Freyberg, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Gavron, L.
Geraint, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gilbert, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goschen, V.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Grabiner, L.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greaves, L.
Greengross, B.
Greenway, L.
Grenfell, L.
Guildford, Bp.
Hamwee, B.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of High Cross, L.
Harris of Peckham, L.
Haskel, L.
Haslam, L.
Hattersley, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Healey, L.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Holderness, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Howe, E.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Jacobs, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jeger, B.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Kimball, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Laing of Dunphail, L.
Laird, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Lawson of Blaby, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Lewis of Newnham, L.
Lindsay, E.
Lipsey, L.
Liverpool, E.
Lloyd of Berwick, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Longford, E.
Lovell-Davis, L.
McAlpine of West Green, L.
McCarthy, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McConnell, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
MacLaurin of Knebworth, L.
McNally, L.
Mallalieu, B.
Mar, C.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Mishcon, L.
Mitchell, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montrose, D.
Moore of Wolvercote, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Neill of Bladen, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicol, B.
Nolan, L.
Northbourne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.

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Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Oliver of Aylmerton, L.
Onslow, E.
Oxfuird, V.
Palmer, L.
Parekh, L.
Patel, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pike, B.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plumb, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Porter of Luddenham, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rawlings, B.
Rawlinson of Ewell, L.
Rea, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Richard, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogan, L.
Roper, L.
Ryder of Warsaw, B.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandberg, L.
Sanderson of Bowden, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selsdon, L.
Sewel, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shepherd, L.
Sheppard of Liverpool, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Slim, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Southwark, Bp.
Stern, B.
Stewartby, L.
Stodart of Leaston, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Gryfe, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Tebbit, L.
Tenby, V.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Swynnerton, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Varley, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.
Warner, L.
Warnock, B.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Wilcox, B.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Willoughby de Broke, L.
Windlesham, L.
Young, B.
Young of Old Scone, B.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Guildford.

1.Speakers of the House—The Lord Chancellor acquainted the House that Her Majesty had by Commission dated in the afternoon of 6th June 2000 appointed the Lord Bingham of Cornhill (having been appointed a Lord of Appeal in Ordinary by Letters Patent dated in the forenoon of 6th June 2000) and, in his absence, the Lord Slynn of Hadley and, in their absence, the remaining Lords of Appeal in Ordinary in order of seniority of appointment, Speakers of the House for the purpose of hearing and determining appeals and matters connected therewith, in the absence of the Lord Chancellor or Lord Keeper of the Great Seal.
2.Leave of Absence—Leave of absence was granted to the Lord Chancellor for Thursday 8th June.

Judicial Business

3.Dubai Aluminium Company Limited v. Salaam (Respondent) and others (Petitioners) and others and others (Respondents)—The petition of Amhurst Brown Martin & Nicholson and Amhurst Brown Colombotti praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee (lodged 5th May).
4.Government of Italy (Petitioners) v. Urru (Respondent)—The petition of the Crown Prosecution Service praying for leave to appeal in accordance with the Administration of Justice Act 1960 was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee.
5.Regina v. North West Leicestershire District Council and others (Respondents) ex parte Moses (Petitioner)—The petition of Joanna Moses praying for leave to appeal notwithstanding that the time limited by Standing Order II has expired was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee.

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6.Governor and Company of the Bank of Scotland (Respondents) v. Bennett and another (A.P.) (Appellant)—The petition of the appellant praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 31st July next (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed.
7.Regina v. Secretary of State for the Home Department (Appellant) ex parte Adan (Respondent)—The petition of the appellant praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 13th July next (the agents for the respondent consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed (lodged 31st May).
8.Appeal Committee—The 50th Report from the Appeal Committee was agreed to and the following Order was made—

Berkeley (Appellant) v. Secretary of State for the Environment and others (Respondents)—That the petition of the respondents to adduce further evidence be allowed.

Papers

9.Command Paper—The following paper was presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:

European Communities—Euro–Mediterranean Agreement establishing an Association between the European Communities and their Member States and Morocco.

(4725)

10.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Census Regulations 2000, laid under the Census Act 1920;
 (1473)
2. (i)Burma (Freezing of Funds) Regulations 2000—(1472)
(ii)Sulphur Content of Liquid Fuels (England and Wales) Regulations 2000—(1460)
 laid under the European Communities Act 1972;
3.Transport of Explosives (Safety Advisers) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2000, laid under the Health and Safety at Work (Northern Ireland) Order 1978;
 (—)
4. (i)International Transport of Goods under Cover of TIR Carnets (Fees) (Amendment) Regulations 2000—(1464)
(ii)Passenger and Goods Vehicles (Recording Equipment) (Approval of Fitters and Workshops) (Fees) (Amendment) Regulations 2000—(1465)
 laid under the Finance Act 1973.
11.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Civil Courts (Amendment) Order 2000, laid under the Supreme Court Act 1981;
 (1482)
2.Accounts for 1998–99 of the Scottish Development Office: Erskine Bridge, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Erskine Bridge Tolls Act 1968.
12.Special Procedure Order—The following special procedure order was laid before the House, together with the certificate of the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, and ordered to lie on the Table:

Devil’s Dyke Brighton and Hove Compulsory Rights Order 2000.

13.Instruments coming into operation before being laid—The Lord Chancellor acquainted the House that he had received, under the proviso to section 4(1) of the Statutory Instruments Act 1946, notification that the following instruments had come into operation before being laid before Parliament, with an explanation thereof; the notification and explanation were ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Northern Ireland Act 2000 (Restoration of Devolved Government) Order 2000;
 (1445)
2.Northern Ireland Act 2000 (Modification) Order 2000.
 (1446)

Select Committee Report

14.Science and Technology—It was ordered that the evidence taken by Sub-Committee I (Complementary and Alternative Medicine) on 4th April be printed. (HL Paper 48–viii)

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Public Business

15.Regulation of Investigatory Powers Bill—It was moved by the Lord Bassam of Brighton that it be an instruction to the Committee of the Whole House to whom the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Bill has been committed that they consider the Bill in the following order:
Clauses 1 to 46
Schedule 1
Clauses 47 to 57
Schedule 2
Clauses 58 to 73
Schedules 3 and 4
Clause 74;

the motion was agreed to.

16.Financial Services and Markets Bill—The bill was returned from the Commons with an amendment disagreed to but with an amendment proposed in lieu thereof; with an amendment agreed to with an amendment; and with the remaining amendments agreed to; the Commons amendments were ordered to be printed. (HL Bill 78)
17.Terrorism Bill—The House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were agreed to; an amendment was disagreed to (see division list); an amendment was moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; the House was resumed for a statement; the House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; amendments were agreed to; the House was resumed and the bill was reported with amendments; it was ordered that the bill be printed as amended. (HL Bill 79)
18.Legal aid: Gulf War veterans and sheep farmers—The Countess of Mar asked Her Majesty’s Government what is the legal aid expenditure to date, and what is the projected funding, for the multi-party actions by Gulf War veterans and sheep farmers; after debate, the question was answered by the Lord Chancellor.

The House was adjourned at a quarter-past seven o’clock
till tomorrow, half-past two o’clock.


DIVISION

TERRORISM BILL

It was moved by the Lord Glentoran, after Clause 95, to insert the new Clause (Detention of terrorists); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the Committee divided:

Contents.............83

Not-Contents.............156

CONTENTS

Alexander of Weedon, L.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St. Johns, B.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Blackwell, L.
Blaker, L.
Boardman, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butterworth, L.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cox, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Denham, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Erroll, E.
Flather, B.
Glentoran, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Haslam, L.
Henley, L. [Teller]
Hooper, B.
Howe, E.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Kimball, L.
Kingsland, L.
Laird, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Lawson of Blaby, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McConnell, L.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monson, L.
Montrose, D.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Onslow, E.
Oxfuird, V.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plumb, L.
Rawlings, B.
Rawlinson of Ewell, L.
Reay, L.
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rogan, L.
Seccombe, B. [Teller]
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Tebbit, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Warnock, B.
Wilcox, B.
Willoughby de Broke, L.
Young, B.

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NOT-CONTENTS

Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Andrews. B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Billingham, B.
Blackstone, B.
Blease, L.
Blood, B.
Borrie, L.
Bragg, L.
Brennan, L.
Bridges, L.
Brookman, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Carnarvon, E.
Carter, L. [Teller]
Chandos, V.
Christopher, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Colville of Culross, V.
Craig of Radley, L.
Davies of Coity, L.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Eatwell, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Geraint, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gilbert, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Grabiner, L.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Greaves, L.
Greengross, B.
Grenfell, L.
Hamwee, B.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayman, B.
Healey, L.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howells of St Davids, B.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)
Jacobs, L.
Jeger, B.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lipsey, L.
Lloyd of Berwick, L.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Lovell-Davis, L.
McCarthy, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
McNally, L.
Mallalieu, B.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Mitchell, L.
Molloy, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Nicol, B.
Northover, B.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
Oliver of Aylmerton, L.
Palmer, L.
Patel, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Peston, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Rea, L.
Redesdale, L. [Teller]
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Richard, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Roper, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Sewel, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shepherd, L.
Sheppard of Liverpool, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L
Simon, V.
Slim, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Taylor of Gryfe, L.
Tenby, V.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Varley, L.
Walmsley, B.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Mostyn, L.