House of Lords Journal 233 (Session 1999-00)


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Thursday 17 February 2000

The House met at ten o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Ackner, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Aldington, L.
Allen of Abbeydale, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Belstead, L.
Biffen, L.
Blackburn, Bp.
Blackstone, B.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Blease, L.
Boardman, L.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bramall, L.
Brett, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brightman, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookeborough , V.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Browne-Wilkinson, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butterworth, L.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carter, L.
Chalfont, L.
Christopher, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Clyde, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Cranborne, V.
Crathorne, L.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Croham, L.
Cuckney, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Deedes, L.
Denham, L.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Diamond, L.
Dixon, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Eames, L.
Eatwell, L.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Elder, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Ezra, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Feldman, L.
Fellowes, L.
Ferrers, E.
Filkin, L.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Flowers, L.
Fookes, B.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Gale, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Gavron, L.
Geddes, L.
Geraint, L.
Gibson, L.
Gilmour of Craigmillar, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goldsmith, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greengross, B.
Greenway, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanningfield, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.

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Harris of Haringey, L.
Harrison, L.
Haskel, L.
Haslam, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Healey, L.
Henley, L.
Hereford, Bp.
Hobhouse of Woodborough, L.
Hoffmann, L.
Hogg, B.
Holderness, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Hope of Craighead, L.
Howe, E.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Hussey of North Bradley, L.
Hylton, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Inge, L.
Islwyn, L.
Jacobs, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jauncey of Tullichettle, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Judd, L.
Kimball, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Laing of Dunphail, L.
Laird, L.
Laming, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lawson of Blaby, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Levy, L.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Longford, E.
Lovell-Davis, L.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McConnell, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackay of Drumadoon, L.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
McNally, L.
Mallalieu, B.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Millett, L.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Mishcon, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moynihan, L.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Neill of Bladen, L.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicholls of Birkenhead, L.
Norfolk, D.
Northbourne, L.
Northesk, E.
Norton of Louth, L.
O’Cathain, B.
O’Neill of Bengarve, B.
Onslow, E.
Orme, L.
Oxfuird, V.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Parry, L.
Patten, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Peel, E.
Perry of Walton, L.
Peston, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Porter of Luddenham, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Rees, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennard, L.
Renwick of Clifton, L.
Richard, L.
Richardson of Calow, B.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogan, L.
Rogers of Riverside, L.
Rosslyn, E.
Rotherwick, L.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Saatchi, L.
St. Albans, Bp.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandberg, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Serota, B.
Sewel, L.
Sharman, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Shrewsbury, E.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Slim, V.
Slynn of Hadley, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Southwark, Bp.
Stallard, L.
Stevens of Ludgate, L.
Stewartby, L.
Steyn, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Tanlaw, L.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Gryfe, L.
Tenby, V.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walpole, L.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Warner, L.
Warnock, B.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Wharton, B.

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Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Wilcox, B.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Windlesham, L.
Young, B.
Young of Graffham, L.
Young of Old Scone, B.
Younger of Leckie, V.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of St Albans.

Judicial Business

1.Burton (A.P.) (Respondent) v. Mayor etc. of the London Borough of Camden (Appellants)—The Report from the Appellate Committee was agreed to; it was ordered and adjudged that the Order of the Court of Appeal of 17th December 1997 be set aside and that the Order of Mr Recorder Keane of 30th May 1997 be restored; that the costs of the appellants in the Court of Appeal and before this House be paid out of the Legal Aid Fund in accordance with section 18 of the Legal Aid Act 1988, such order to be suspended for four weeks to allow the Legal Aid Board to object if they wish; and that the costs of the respondent in this House be taxed in accordance with the Legal Aid Act 1988.
2.Newell and others (Original Appellants and Cross-Respondents) v. Secretary of State for the Environment and another (Original Respondents and Cross-Appellants)—
3.Fletcher Estates (Harlescott) Limited (Original Appellants and Cross-Respondents) v. Secretary of State for the Environment and another (Original Respondents and Cross-Appellants)—

(Consolidated Appeals)

The Report from the Appellate Committee was agreed to; it was ordered and adjudged that the Order of the Court of Appeal of 11th June 1998 be affirmed; that the Cross-appeals be dismissed and that the Appeals be dismissed with costs under deduction of those incurred by the appellants in respect of the preparation of their statement of case relating to ‘Issue I’ of the Cross-appeal, the amount thereof to be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

4.Regina v. Hertfordshire County Council (Respondents) ex parte Green Environmental Industries Limited and another (A.P.) (Appellant)—The Report from the Appellate Committee was agreed to; it was ordered and adjudged that the Order of the Court of Appeal of 31st July 1997 be affirmed and the Appeal dismissed; that the costs of the respondents be paid out of the Legal Aid Fund in accordance with section 18 of the Legal Aid Act 1988, such order to be suspended for four weeks to allow the Legal Aid Board to object if they wish; and that the costs of the appellant in this House be taxed in accordance with the Legal Aid Act 1988.
5.Regina v. Secretary of State for Employment (Original Appellant and Cross-Respondent) ex parte Seymour-Smith (A.P.) and another (A.P.) (Original Respondents and Cross-Appellants)—The further Report from the Appellate Committee was agreed to, further to the Order of the House of 13th March 1997 whereby certain questions were referred to the Court of Justice of the European Communities; the Judgment of that Court having been given on 9th February 1999, it was ordered and adjudged that the Appeal be allowed and that the Cross-appeal be dismissed; that the Order of the Court of Appeal of 1st August 1995 be set aside and that the Order of the Divisional Court of 20th May 1994 be restored; and that there be no order as to costs in the Court of Appeal, the Court of Justice of the European Communities and before this House, save that the costs of the respondents in this House be taxed in accordance with the Legal Aid Act 1988.
6.Agnew (Suing on his own behalf and in a representative capacity on behalf of all members of Lloyds Syndicates 672, 79, 1023 and 590) and others (Respondents) v. La­nsfo­rsa­kringsbolagens AB (Appellants)—The Report from the Appellate Committee was agreed to; it was ordered and adjudged that the Order of the Court of Appeal of 31st July 1997 be affirmed and the Appeal dismissed with costs, the amount thereof to be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.
7.Morgans (Appellant) v. Director of Public Prosecutions (Respondent) (On Appeal from a Divisional Court of the Queen’s Bench Division)—The Report from the Appellate Committee was agreed to; it was ordered and adjudged that the Order of the Divisional Court of 26th August 1999 be varied so that the words from “the First” to “affirmative” be deleted and that paragraph 2 be set aside; that the second certified question be answered in the negative; that the cause be remitted to the Crown Court with a direction to quash the two convictions under section 42 of the Telecommunications Act 1984; that the costs of the appellant before he was in receipt of legal aid be paid out of central funds in accordance with section 16 of the Prosecution of Offences Act 1985, the amount thereof to be determined by the Clerk of the Parliaments; that the respondent do pay to the appellant his costs in the Divisional Court and before this House, the amount of such last-mentioned costs to be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties; and that the costs of the appellant in this House be taxed in accordance with the Legal Aid Act 1988.

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8.Amoco (U.K.) Exploration Company (a company incorporated in Delaware, USA) and others (Appellants) v. Teesside Gas Transportation Limited (Respondents) (England)—The appeal of Amoco (U.K.) Exploration Company, BG International Limited (formerly Gas Council (Exploration) Limited), Amerada Hess Limited, BG North Sea Holdings Limited (formerly North Sea Holdings Limited), Agip (U.K.) Limited, Fina Exploration Limited and Phillips Petroleum Company United Kingdom Limited was presented and it was ordered that in accordance with Standing Order VI the statement and appendix thereto be lodged on or before 30th March next.
9.Amoco (U.K.) Exploration Company (a company incorporated in Delaware, USA) and others (Appellants) v. Imperial Chemical Industries plc and others (Respondents) (England)—The appeal of Amoco (U.K.) Exploration Company, BG International Limited (formerly Gas Council (Exploration) Limited), Amerada Hess Limited and BG North Sea Holdings Limited (formerly North Sea Holdings Limited) was presented and it was ordered that in accordance with Standing Order VI the statement and appendix thereto be lodged on or before 30th March next.
10.Regina v. Secretary of State for the Environment, Transport and the Regions and another (Petitioners) ex parte Spath Holme Limited (Respondents)—The petition of the Secretary of State for the Environment, Transport and the Regions and the Secretary of State for Wales praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee.
11.Scandecor Development AB (Appellants) v. Scandecor Marketing AB and others (Respondents) and one other action —The appeal was set down for hearing and referred to an Appellate Committee (lodged 16th February).
12.Bettison and others (Respondents) v. Langton and others (Appellants)—The petition of the appellants praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 22nd March next (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed (lodged 9th February).
13.Commissioners of Customs and Excise (Respondents) v. Liverpool Institute for Performing Arts (Appellants)—It was ordered that the appellants be allowed to prosecute the appeal without giving the usual security for costs as required by Standing Order.

The House was adjourned during pleasure.
The House was resumed.

Papers

14.Command Paper—The following paper was presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:

Security—Report of the Security Commission, February 2000.

(4578)

15.Affirmative Instrument—The following instrument was laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table:

Draft Education (Student Loans) (Repayment) Regulations 2000.

16.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
(i)Weighing Equipment (Filling and Discontinuous Totalising Automatic Weighing Machines) (Amendment) Regulations 2000—
 (387)
(ii)Weighing Equipment (Automatic Gravimetric Filling Instruments) Regulations 2000—

(388)

 laid under the Weights and Measures Act 1985.
17.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Accounts for 1998–99 of the Home Grown Sugar Beet (Research and Education) Fund, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Food Act 1984;
2.Report and Accounts for 1998–99 of the National Biological Standards Board, laid under the Biological Standards Act 1975;
3.Regulations of the Defence Council relating to the Royal Air Force Manual of Assessment of Medical Fitness, laid under the Air Force (Constitution) Act 1917.

Public Business

18.Learning and Skills Bill [HL]—The House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; an amendment was disagreed to (see division list); amendments were agreed to; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; the House was resumed and the bill was reported with amendments; it was ordered that the bill be printed as amended. (HL Bill 36)

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19.Northern Ireland—The Lord Glentoran asked Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to ensure the maintenance of law and order in Northern Ireland; after debate, the question was answered by the Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton.

The House was adjourned at thirteen minutes past nine o’clock
to Monday next, half-past two o’clock.


DIVISION

LEARNING AND SKILLS BILL [HL]

It was moved by the Baroness Blatch, in Clause 98, page 43, line 34, leave out “(inadequate sixth forms)” and insert “(sixth form centres)”; which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the Committee divided:

Contents.............79

Not-Contents.............114

CONTENTS

Aldington, L.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Belstead, L.
Biffen, L.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Burnham, L. [Teller]
Buscombe, B.
Butterworth, L.
Byford, B.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Cockfield, L.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cranborne, V.
Crickhowell, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Denham, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Geddes, L.
Gilmour of Craigmillar, L.
Glentoran, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Haslam, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Henley, L. [Teller]
Holderness, L.
Hooper, B.
Howe, E.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Hylton, L.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Laird, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lucas, L.
Lyell, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McConnell, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackay of Drumadoon, L.
Mancroft, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Northesk, E.
Norton of Louth, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Palmer, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Porter of Luddenham, L.
Rees, L.
Rogan, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Skelmersdale, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Warnock, B.
Wharton, B.
Windlesham, L.
Young, B.

NOT-CONTENTS

Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Bach, L.
Barker, B.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Blackstone, B.
Borrie, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Brett, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Carter, L. [Teller]
Christopher, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
David, B.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Gale, B.
Gavron, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Goldsmith, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harrison, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayman, B.
Healey, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
(Lord Privy Seal)

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Jenkins of Putney, L.
Judd, L.
Laming, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Levy, L.
Lovell-Davis, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller]
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mallalieu, B.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Molloy, L.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Paul, L.
Peston, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rea, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Richard, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogers of Riverside, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Serota, B.
Sewel, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Simon, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Stallard, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Gryfe, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Young of Old Scone, B.