House of Lords Journal 233 (Session 1999-00)


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Tuesday 15 February 2000

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Alderdice, L.
Aldington, L.
Allen of Abbeydale, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Astor, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Belstead, L.
Biffen, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Blease, L.
Boardman, L.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bragg, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brightman, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookeborough , V.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Burns, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butler of Brockwell, L.
Butterworth, L.
Byford, B.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carlile of Berriew, L.
Carter, L.
Chalfont, L.
Chalker of Wallasey, B.
Chichester, Bp.
Christopher, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.

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Cranborne, V.
Crathorne, L.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Dahrendorf, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Dearing, L.
Denham, L.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Dundee, E.
Durham, Bp.
Eames, L.
Eatwell, L.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Elder, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Ezra, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Feldman, L.
Ferrers, E.
Filkin, L.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freyberg, L.
Gale, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Gavron, L.
Geddes, L.
Geraint, L.
Gilbert, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goodhart, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Grabiner, L.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greengross, B.
Gregson, L.
Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of Peckham, L.
Harrison, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Henley, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Holderness, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Home, E.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Howe, E.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Hylton, L.
HyltonFoster, B.
Islwyn, L.
Jacobs, L.
James of Holland Park, B.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Jopling, L.
Judd, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kimball, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kirkham, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Laird, L.
Laming, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Lewis of Newnham, L.
Lindsay, E.
Lipsey, L.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
London, Bp.
Longford, E.
Lovell-Davis, L.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McCarthy, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McConnell, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
McNally, L.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Mishcon, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monson, L.
Montrose, D.
Moran, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moynihan, L.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Naseby, L.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nickson, L.
Norfolk, D.
Northbourne, L.
Northesk, E.
Norton of Louth, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Orme, L.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patel, L.
Patten, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Peel, E.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Porter of Luddenham, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Pym, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Reay, L.
Rees, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennard, L.
Richard, L.
Richardson of Calow, B.
Rix, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogan, L.
Rogers of Riverside, L.
Roll of Ipsden, L.

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Rotherwick, L.
Russell, E.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandberg, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Serota, B.
Sewel, L.
Sharman, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shepherd, L.
Sheppard of Didgemere, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Slim, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Stallard, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stodart of Leaston, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Tanlaw, L.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Tugendhat, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Varley, L.
Vinson, L.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Walker of Worcester, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walpole, L.
Warner, L.
Warnock, B.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Wharton, B.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Wilcox, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Willoughby de Broke, L.
Wilson of Tillyorn, L.
Winchester, Bp.
Windlesham, L.
Winston, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Young, B.
Young of Old Scone, B.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of London.

1.Baroness Greengross—Sally Ralea Greengross, OBE, having been created Baroness Greengross, of Notting Hill in the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea, for life by Letters Patent dated 10th February 2000 (see appendix 1), was introduced between the Baroness Pitkeathley and the Lord Evans of Watford, the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod and Garter King of Arms preceding; and took and subscribed the oath pursuant to statute.

Judicial Business

2.Commissioners of Customs and Excise (Respondents) v. Liverpool Institute for Performing Arts (Appellant) (England)—The appeal of the Liverpool Institute for Performing Arts was presented and it was ordered that in accordance with Standing Order VI the statement and appendix thereto be lodged on or before 28th March next.
3.Designers Guild Limited (Appellants) v. Russell Williams (Textiles) Limited (trading as Washington DC) (Respondents)—The petition of the appellants praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 20th March next (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed.
4.Appeal Committee—The following Order was made pursuant to the 10th Report—

Porter (Petitioner) v. Magill (Respondent) and one other action—That the petition be referred for hearing.

5.Appeal Committee—The following Orders were made pursuant to the 17th Report—

Byrne (Respondent) v. Inntrepreneur Beer Supply Company Limited (formerly known as Courage Limited) (Petitioners)—That the petition be referred for hearing.

Byrne (Petitioner) v. Inntrepreneur Beer Supply Company Limited (formerly known as Courage Limited) (Respondents)—That the petition be referred for hearing.

Papers

6.Command Papers—The following papers were presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Armed Forces—Armed Forces’ Pay Review Body Twenty-Ninth Report 2000;
 (4565)
2.Salary Review Bodies—Review Body on Senior Salaries Twenty-Second Report on Senior Salaries;
 (4567)
3.European Union—IGC: Reform for Enlargement: The British Approach to the European Union Intergovernmental Conference 2000;
 (4595)

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4.National Minimum Wage—Second Report of the Low Pay Commission: the National Minimum Wage: The Story So Far;
 (4571)
5.Children in care—Report and Summary of the Tribunal of Inquiry into the abuse of children in care in the former county council areas of Gwynedd and Clwyd since 1974.

(—)

7.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1. (i)Greater London Authority (Allocation of Grants for Precept Calculations) Regulations 2000,(343)
(ii)Greater London Authority (Elections and Acceptance of Office) Order 2000,(308)
 laid under the Greater London Authority Act 1999;
2.Personal Injuries (Civilians) Amendment Scheme 2000, laid under the Personal Injuries (Emergency Provisions) Act 1939.
 (301)
8.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Report and Accounts 1998–99 of the Highways Agency, laid under the Exchequer and Audit Departments Act 1921;
2.Report and Consolidated Financial Statements for 1998–1999, of the Royal Hospital Chelsea, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Chelsea Hospital Act 1876;
3.Account of the Research Council’s Pension Schemes 1998–99, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Science and Technology Act 1965;
4.Accounts of the Accounts Commission for Scotland for the year ended 31st October 1999, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Local Government (Scotland) Act 1973;
5.Accounts of the Plymouth Education Action Zone 1998–99 together with the report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the School Standards and Framework Act 1998.

Select Committee Reports

9.House of Lords’ Offices—The 3rd Report from the Select Committee was made (see appendix 2); it was ordered that the Report be printed. (HL Paper 32)
10.Statutory Instruments—The 10th Report from the Joint Committee was made on certain statutory instruments, including the following affirmative instrument:
 Draft Greater London Authority (Election Expenses) Order 2000;

it was ordered that the Report be printed. (HL Paper 31)

11.European Union—The following Reports from the Select Committee were made and ordered to be printed, together with the Minutes of Evidence:

Reforming EC Competition Procedures; (4th Report–HL Paper 33)

UK participation in the Schengen Acquis. (5th Report–HL Paper 34)

Public Business

12.Life Peerages (Appointments Commission) Bill [HL]—A bill to establish a Commission to make proposals for the conferment of life peerages under the Life Peerages Act 1958 was presented by the Lord Kingsland, read a first time and ordered to be printed. (HL Bill 34)
13.Parliamentary Commissioner (Amendment) Bill [HL]—The bill was read a third time and passed and sent to the Commons.
14.Representation of the People Bill—The House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; the House was resumed for a statement; the House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; amendments were agreed to; the House was resumed and the bill was reported with amendments; it was ordered that the bill be printed as amended. (HL Bill 35)
15.Learning and Skills Bill [HL]—The House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; the House was resumed.
16.Social Security Benefits Up-rating Order 2000—It was moved by the Baroness Hollis of Heigham that the draft Order laid before the House on 31st January be approved; after debate, the motion was agreed to.

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17.Guaranteed Minimum Pensions Increase Order 2000—It was moved by the Baroness Hollis of Heigham t hat the draft Order laid before the House on 31st January be approved; the motion was agreed to.

The House was adjourned during pleasure.
The House was resumed.

18.Learning and Skills Bill [HL]—The House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; an amendment was disagreed to (see division list); amendments were agreed to; the House was resumed after clause 97 stood part.

The House was adjourned at twenty-one minutes past midnight
in the morning of Wednesday 16th February
till later the same day, half-past two o’clock in the afternoon.


DIVISION

LEARNING AND SKILLS BILL [HL]

It was moved by the Baroness Blatch, in Clause 54, page 22, line 24, to leave out paragraph (b) and insert:

(“(b) a right of entry to premises used in connection with the provisions of that training and development;”);

which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the Committee divided:

Contents.............24

Not-Contents.............56

CONTENTS

Astor of Hever, L.
Blatch, B.
Boardman, L.
Buscombe, B.
Byford, B.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dundee, E.
Fookes, B.
Henley, L. [Teller]
Hooper, B.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mancroft, L.
Montrose, D.
Moynihan, L.
Northesk, E.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Seccombe, B. [Teller]
Skelmersdale, L.
Tugendhat, L.
Walker of Worcester, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Ahmed, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Amos, B.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Bach, L.
Blackstone, B.
Bragg, L.
Burlison, L.
Carter, L. [Teller]
Christopher, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Dearing, L.
Desai, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Gale, B.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Haskel, L.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Judd, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Lipsey, L.
McCarthy, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Orme, L.
Patel, L.
Peston, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Prys-Davies, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Rea, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Thornton, B.
Whitaker, B.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Winston, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Young of Old Scone, B.


APPENDIX 1

ELIZABETH THE SECOND by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Our other Realms and Territories Queen Head of the Commonwealth Defender of the Faith To all Lords Spiritual and Temporal and all other Our Subjects whatsoever to whom these Presents shall come Greeting Know Ye that We of Our especial grace certain knowledge and mere motion in pursuance of the Life Peerages Act 1958 and of all other powers in that behalf Us enabling do by these Presents advance create and prefer Our right trusty and well beloved Sally Ralea Greengross Officer of Our Most Excellent Order of the British Empire to the state degree style dignity

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title and honour of Baroness Greengross of Notting Hill in Our Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea

And for Us Our heirs and successors do appoint give and grant unto her the said name state degree style dignity title and honour of Baroness Greengross to have and to hold unto her for her life

Willing and by these Presents granting for Us Our heirs and successors that she may have hold and possess a seat place and voice in the Parliaments and Public Assemblies and Councils of Us Our heirs and successors within Our United Kingdom amongst the Barons And also that she may enjoy and use all the rights privileges pre-eminences immunities and advantages to the degree of a Baron duly and of right belonging which Barons of Our United Kingdom have heretofore used and enjoyed or as they do at present use and enjoy

In Witness whereof We have caused these Our Letters to be made Patent Witness Ourself at Westminster the tenth day of February in the forty-ninth year of Our Reign

BY WARRANT UNDER THE QUEEN’S SIGN MANUAL


APPENDIX 2

Third Report from the Select Committee
on the House of Lords’ Offices


Tuesday 15 February 2000


By the Select Committee appointed to consider the House of Lords’ Offices

Ordered to Report:

The Committee have met and been attended by the Clerk of the Parliaments and the Yeoman Usher of the Black Rod.

Re-opening of the Line of Route to the public

The Committee recommends that the public Line of Route should be re-opened for seven weeks during the coming Summer Recess. This proposal has already been approved by the House of Commons.

The re-opening of the public Line of Route is experimental. The Committee will undertake an early review of its operation in conjunction, as necessary, with the relevant Committee of the House of Commons, which, it is expected, will undertake a similar review.

The existing rights of Members of both Houses to sponsor visits to the Palace will be maintained.