House of Lords Journal 233 (Session 1999-00)


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Page 136

1999-00

Volume 233      

Tuesday 1 February 2000

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Aldington, L.
Alexander of Weedon, L.
Allen of Abbeydale, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Arran, E.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Astor, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Bellwin, L.
Belstead, L.
Biffen, L.
Blackburn, Bp.
Blackstone, B.
Blackwell, L.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Blease, L.
Bledisloe, V.
Blood, B.
Boardman, L.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bragg, L.
Bramall, L.
Brett, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Brightman, L.
Brigstocke, B.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookeborough , V.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Burns, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butler of Brockwell, L.
Butterworth, L.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carlile of Berriew, L.
Carlisle, Bp.
Carnarvon, E.
Carrington, L.
Carter, L.
Castle of Blackburn, B.
Chadlington, L.
Chalfont, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Cranborne, V.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Croham, L.
Cuckney, L.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Dacre of Glanton, L.
Dahrendorf, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Dearing, L.
Deedes, L.
Denham, L.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Elder, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Ezra, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Ferrers, E.
Filkin, L.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freeman, L.
Freyberg, L.
Gale, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Gavron, L.
Geraint, L.
Gibson, L.
Gilbert, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goodhart, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greenway, L.
Gregson, L.
Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hanningfield, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harmar-Nicholls, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of Peckham, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Henley, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Holderness, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Howe, E.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Tanworth, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Hylton- Foster, B.
James of Holland Park, B.
Janner of Braunstone, L.

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Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeger, B.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Jopling, L.
Judd, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kimball, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kirkham, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Knights, L.
Laird, L.
Laming, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lindsay, E.
Lipsey, L.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Longford, E.
Lovell-Davis, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McCarthy, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
MacLaurin of Knebworth, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mallalieu, B.
Mar, C.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montrose, D.
Moran, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moynihan, L.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Naseby, L.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicol, B.
Northbourne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Norton of Louth, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Orme, L.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Perry of Walton, L.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pike, B.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Plumb, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Porter of Luddenham, L.
Prashar, B.
Prior, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Quinton, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rawlings, B.
Rea, L.
Reay, L.
Rees, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Renton of Mount Harry, L.
Renwick of Clifton, L.
Richard, L.
Richardson of Calow, B.
Rix, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogan, L.
Rogers of Riverside, L.
Roll of Ipsden, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Russell, E.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Sandberg, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Serota, B.
Sharman, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shepherd, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Slim, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Southwark, Bp.
Stallard, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stodart of Leaston, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Tenby, V.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Swynnerton, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Tugendhat, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Varley, L.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Warner, L.
Warnock, B.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Whaddon, L.
Wharton, B.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilcox, B.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Wilson of Tillyorn, L.
Winston, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Young, B.
Younger of Leckie, V.

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PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Southwark.

Judicial Business

1.Regina v. Commissioners of Inland Revenue (Petitioners) ex parte Newfields Developments Limited (Respondents)—The petition of Her Majestys Commissioners of Inland Revenue praying for leave to appeal notwithstanding that the time limited by Standing Order II has expired was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee.
2.Regina v. Smith (Respondent) (On Appeal from the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division))—The petition of Harriet Wistrich, Pragna Patel and Liberty was presented praying that they might be heard or otherwise intervene in the said appeal (the agents for the appellant and the respondent consenting thereto) and referred to an Appeal Committee.

Papers

3.Command Papers—The following papers were presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Education—Ninth Report 2000 of the School Teachers’ Review Body;
 (4568)
2.Compensation—Compensation (Government Communications Headquarters) Scheme 2000 (No2).
 (—)
4.Affirmative Instrument—The following instrument was laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table:

Draft Northern Ireland Arms Decommissioning Act 1997 (Amnesty Period) Order 2000.

5.Negative Instrument—The following instrument was laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:

Rail Vehicle Accessibility (LTS Rail Class 357 Vehicles) Exemption Order 2000, laid under the Disability Discrimination Act 1995.

(182)

6.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following paper was laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:

Statement of guarantee given by the Treasury on 24 January 2000 in respect of temporary borrowing by the Audit Commission from Lloyds Bank plc, laid under the Local Government Finance Act 1982.

Select Committee Reports

7.Procedure of the House—The First Report from the Select Committee was made (see appendix); it was ordered that the Report be printed. (HL Paper 25)
8.Statutory Instruments—The 8th Report from the Joint Committee was made on certain statutory instruments, including the following affirmative instruments:
 Draft Data Protection (Crown Appointments) Order 2000;
 Draft Data Protection (Designated Codes of Practice) Order 2000;
 Draft Data Protection (Miscellaneous Subject Access Exemptions) Order 2000;
 Draft Data Protection (Processing of Sensitive Personal Data) Order 2000;
 Draft Data Protection (Subject Access Modification) (Education) Order 2000;
 Draft Data Protection (Subject Access Modification) (Health) Order 2000;
 Draft Data Protection (Subject Access Modification) (Social Work) Order 2000;
 Draft Social Security Benefits Up-rating Order 2000;
 Draft Guaranteed Minimum Pensions Increase Order 2000;
it was ordered that the Report be printed. (HL Paper 26)

Private Business

9.Baxi Partnership Limited Trusts Bill [HL]—The bill was returned from the Commons agreed to with amendments; the amendments were considered and agreed to.

Public Business

10.Cheques (Scotland) Bill [HL]—A bill to amend the law of Scotland in relation to the effect of presentation of cheques for payment was presented by the Viscount Younger of Leckie, read a first time and ordered to be printed. (HL Bill 27)
11.Cheques (Scotland) Bill [HL]—It was ordered that the Explanatory Notes relating to the bill be printed. (HL Bill 27–EN)

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12.Business of the House—It was moved by the Baroness Jay of Paddington that the debate on the motion in the name of the Baroness Cumberlege set down for tomorrow shall be limited to 5 hours; the motion was agreed to.
13.Local Government Bill [HL]—The House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; amendments were agreed to; an amendment was disagreed to (see division list); the House was resumed.
14.Kosovo—The Lord Skidelsky asked Her Majesty’s Government what is their response to the Report of the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe on Human Rights in Kosovo; after debate, the question was answered by the Baroness Scotland of Asthal.
15.Local Government Bill [HL]—The House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were agreed to; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; the House was resumed after amendment 357.

The House was adjourned at ten minutes before midnight
till tomorrow, half-past two o’clock.


DIVISION

LOCAL GOVERNMENT BILL [HL]

It was moved by the Lord Dixon-Smith, in Clause 19, page 9, line 34, at end to insert:

(“(  ) The result of a referendum held under this section shall not be binding on the authority unless more than 40 per cent. of the electorate vote in favour of the change.”); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the Committee divided:

Contents.............82

Not-Contents.............141

CONTENTS

Anelay of St Johns, B.
Astor, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Belstead, L.
Blackwell, L.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Boardman, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Buscombe, B.
Byford, B.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carnarvon, E.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E. [Teller]
Cox, B.
Craigavon, V.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Denham, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Ferrers, E.
Flather, B.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freeman, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Glentoran, L.
Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Hanham, B.
Hanningfield, L.
Harmar-Nicholls, L.
Harris of Peckham, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Henley, L. [Teller]
Hogg, B.
Howe, E.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
James of Holland Park, B.
Kimball, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Liverpool, E.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
MacLaurin of Knebworth, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Montrose, D.
Moynihan, L.
Naseby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Norton of Louth, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Pike, B.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Rees, L.
Renton, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stodart of Leaston, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Tugendhat, L.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wilcox, B.
Young, B.

NOT-CONTENTS

Addington, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Bach, L.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blease, L.
Borrie, L.
Bragg, L.
Brett, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Burlison, L.
Carter, L. [Teller]
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Craig of Radley, L.

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Crawley, B.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Gale, B.
Gavron, L.
Gilbert, L.
Goodhart, L.
Goudie, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayman, B.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
(Lord Privy Seal)
Jeger, B.
Judd, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lipsey, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Longford, E.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller]
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
Maddock, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Molloy, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Newby, L.
Nicol, B.
Orme, L.
Perry of Walton, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rea, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennard, L.
Renwick of Clifton, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogan, L.
Rogers of Riverside, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Serota, B.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shepherd, L.
Simon, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thornton, B.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Warner, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Weatherill, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Wiliams of Mostyn, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.


APPENDIX

First Report from the Select Committee
on Procedure of the House


TUESDAY 1 FEBRUARY 2000


By the Select Committee on Procedure of the House

Ordered to Report:

1. Freedom of information: applicability to the House of Lords

Parliament is included in the list of public bodies covered by the Freedom of Information Bill. The Bill would enable the authorised officer of each House to refuse to disclose information either on the ground of parliamentary privilege or prejudice to the effective conduct of public affairs. In the House of Lords the authorised officer is the Clerk of the Parliaments. In the case of other public bodies, the Bill provides that a dissatisfied applicant for information can appeal to the Information Commissioner. But there will be no such appeal in the case of Parliament. In the interests of equity the Committee recommends that the House should have a mechanism to consider whether a refusal by the Clerk of the Parliaments to disclose information is reasonable.

The Committee recommends that in cases where the Clerk of the Parliaments is minded to refuse to disclose information on the ground of parliamentary privilege or prejudice to the effective conduct of public affairs,

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he should ask applicants whether they accept his decision or whether they wish him to reconsider. If he is asked to reconsider, he should refer the matter to a panel of members of the House for advice. The panel should consist of 5 persons, chaired by a Lord of Appeal or a retired Lord of Appeal. The other members should include a representative from each of the parties and the Crossbenches. The panel should have the assistance of the Information Commissioner.

2. Scrutiny of amendments at committee and report stage

The Committee considered how major new amendments tabled at report stage could be scrutinised properly, given the restrictions on debate at that stage. The Committee reminds the House that whole bills or certain clauses or schedules may be recommitted to a Committee of the whole House at any time between committee and third reading. Recommitment allows the House to give further detailed consideration to a bill or certain parts of it without the limitations that apply on report and at third reading. In addition the Committee recommends that, in order to improve the scrutiny of legislation, the House should whenever possible have the benefit of a further report from the Delegated Powers and Deregulation Committee, if appropriate, on any significant amendments containing delegated powers tabled to a bill after the committee’s initial report.

3. Starred Questions

The Committee agreed that the Clerk of the Parliaments should inform the House at the beginning of Question Time when he knows that a Starred Question on the Order Paper is not to be asked.

4. Revision of the Companion to the Standing Orders

The Committee was informed that a comprehensive revision of the Companion in Standing Orders was being undertaken. The Committee recommends that for the convenience of members the new edition should be in two volumes. Volume 1 should be an essential practical guide to conduct and procedure in the Chamber; volume 2 would contain more technical information. Both volumes would carry the same authority. The Committee will appoint a small sub-committee to undertake detailed examination of the revised text.