House of Lords Journal 233 (Session 1999-00)


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Monday 6 December 1999

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Aldington, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Annan, L.
Arran, E.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Biffen, L.
Blackwell, L.
Blatch, B.
Blease, L.
Boardman, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bragg, L.
Bramall, L.
Brett, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Brightman, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Burns, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butler of Brockwell, L.
Butterworth, L.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L.
Carnarvon, E.
Carter, L.
Cavendish of Furness, L.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.

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Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clyde, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cowdrey of Tonbridge, L.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Cranborne, V.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Cuckney, L.
Dahrendorf, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Denham, L.
Derby, Bp.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Dundee, E.
Eatwell, L.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Elder, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Ewing of Kirkford, L.
Ezra, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Ferrers, E.
Filkin, L.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freyberg, L.
Gale, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Gavron, L.
Geddes, L.
Geraint, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goschen, V.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Grabiner, L.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greenway, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of Peckham, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Tanworth, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Hussey of North Bradley, L.
Hylton, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Islwyn, L.
Jacobs, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeger, B.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Jopling, L.
Judd, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kingsland, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Laird, L.
Laming, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Levy, L.
Lindsay, E.
Lipsey, L.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Longford, E.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McFarlane of Llandaff, B.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
Mackay of Clashfern, L.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mallalieu, B.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Mishcon, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montrose, D.
Moore of Wolvercote, L.
Moran, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moynihan, L.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Naseby, L.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Norfolk, D.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Norton of Louth, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Orme, L.
Owen, L.
Oxford, Bp.
Oxfuird, V.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patel, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Perry of Walton, L.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plumb, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Porter of Luddenham, L.
Prior, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rawlings, B.
Rea, L.
Rees, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Russell, E.
Ryder of Wensum, L.

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Saatchi, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandberg, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Seccombe, B.
Sefton of Garston, L.
Selsdon, L.
Serota, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shepherd, L.
Sheppard of Liverpool, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Slim, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Stallard, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stern, B.
Stewartby, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Gryfe, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Tenby, V.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Waddington, L.
Wakeham, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Whaddon, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilberforce , L.
Wilcox, B.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Willoughby de Broke, L.
Windlesham, L.
Winston, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Young, B.
Young of Old Scone, B.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Derby.

1.Queen’s Speech—The Queen’s answer to the Address of 24th November last was delivered by the Captain of the Gentlemen at Arms (Lord Carter) and read, as follows:

I have received with great satisfaction the loyal and dutiful expression of your thanks for the speech with which I opened the present Session of Parliament.

Judicial Business

2.B (by his mother and next friend) (Appellant) v. Director of Public Prosecutions (Respondent) (On Appeal from a Divisional Court of the Queen’s Bench Division)—Upon report from the Appellate Committee, it was ordered, pursuant to section 39 of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933, that no newspaper report or programme service of the proceedings in this House shall reveal the name, address, or include any particulars calculated to lead to the identification, of the minors concerned in this appeal and that no picture shall be published in any newspaper or included in any programme service as being or including the said minors.
3.Cadogan Estates Limited (Respondents) v. McMahon (Appellant) (England)—The appeal of Roderick Joseph McMahon was presented and it was ordered that in accordance with Standing Order VI the statement and appendix thereto be lodged on or before 17th January next.
4.Dimond (Original Appellant and Cross-Respondent) v. Lovell (Original Respondent and Cross-Appellant) (England)—The cross-appeal of Robert James Lovell was presented and it was ordered that in accordance with Standing Order VI the statement and appendix thereto be lodged on or before 17th January next.
5.Ropaigealach (A.P.) (Petitioner) v. Barclays Bank plc (Respondents)—The petition of Seoirse Treabhar Ropaigealach praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee. The petitioner’s legal aid certificate was lodged (lodged 28th October).
6.UCB Home Loans Corporation Limited (Respondents) v. Moore and another (A.P.) (Appellant)—The petition of the appellant praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 12th January next (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed.

Papers

7.Command Papers—The following papers, having been presented to the House by command of Her Majesty on 3rd December, were ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Air Services—
(i)Agreement between the United Kingdom and Latvia concerning Air Services;

(4523)

(ii)Exchange of Notes between the United Kingdom and Bangladesh amending the Air Services Agreement of 5th July 1978;(4522)

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2.Armed Forces—Agreement to amend the Protocol of Signature to the Agreement of 3rd August 1959, as amended by the Agreements of 21st October 1971 and 18th May 1981, to Supplement the Agreement between the Parties to the North Atlantic Treaty regarding the Status of their Forces with respect to Foreign Forces stationed in the Federal Republic of Germany;
 (4521)
3.Health—Government Response to the 5th Report of the House of Commons Health Committee, Session 1998–99, on the Regulation of Private and other Independent Healthcare.
 (4540)
8.Statutory Instruments (Standing Order 70)—The following negative instruments, having been laid before the House on 3rd December, were ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Chemicals (Hazard Information and Packaging for Supply) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 1999, laid under the European Communities Act 1972;
 (3165)
2.Tax Credits (Payment by Employers) Regulations 1999, laid under the Tax Credits Act 1999.
 (3219)
9.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Motor Vehicles (Approval) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 1999, laid under the Road Traffic Act 1988;
 (3226)
2.Merchant Shipping (Radio) (Fishing Vessels) Regulations 1999, laid under the Merchant Shipping Act 1995;
 (3210)
3. (i)Transfer of Functions (Medicines and Poisons) Order 1999—(3142)
(ii)Transfer of Functions (Agriculture and Food) Order 1999—(3141)
(iii)Transfer of Functions (Road Traffic) Order 1999—(3143)
 laid under the Ministers of the Crown Act 1975;
4.Statute made by the University of Oxford on 6th July 1999, laid under the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge Act 1923;
 (—)
5.Contaminants in Food (Amendment) (England and Wales) Regulations 1999, laid under the Food Safety Act 1990.
 (3221)
10.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Report and Trading Accounts for 1998–99 of the Export Credits Guarantee Department, laid under the Exchequer and Audit Departments Act 1921;
2.Report for 1998–99 of the British Library, laid under the British Library Act 1972;
3.Accounts for 1998–99 of the Natural Environment Research Council, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Science and Technology Act 1965;
4.Treasury minute directing a raising of the limit on the amount of the Bank of England’s fiduciary note issue, laid under the Currency Act 1983.

Public Business

11.Business of the House—It was moved by the Baroness Jay of Paddington that, unless any Lord objects, leave be given to the Chairman of Committees to move the eight motions standing in his name en bloc; the motion was agreed to.
12.Science and Technology—It was moved by the Chairman of Committees that a Select Committee be appointed to consider science and technology and that, as proposed by the Committee of Selection, the following Lords be named of the Select Committee:
L. Haskel
L. Howie of Troon
L. Jenkin of Roding
L. McColl of Dulwich
L. Methuen
L. Oxburgh
L. Patel
L. Perry of Walton
B. Platt of Writtle
L. Quirk
L. Rea
L. Tombs
L. Wade of Chorlton
L. Walton of Detchant
B. Warwick of Undercliffe
B. Wilcox
L. Winston (Chairman);

That the Committee have power to appoint sub-committees and that the Committee have power to appoint the Chairmen of sub-committees;

That the Committee have power to co-opt any Lord for the purposes of serving on the Committee or any sub-committee;

That the Committee have leave to report from time to time;

That the Committee and any sub-committee have power to adjourn from place to place;

That the Committee and any sub-committee have power to appoint specialist advisers;

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That the minutes of evidence taken before the Committee or any sub-committee from time to time shall, if the Committee think fit, be printed and delivered out; and

That the Committee do meet on Tuesday 7th December at a quarter-before eleven o’clock;

the motion was agreed to.

13.Procedure of the House—It was moved by the Chairman of Committees that the Select Committee on Procedure of the House be appointed and that, as proposed by the Committee of Selection, the following Lords together with the Chairman of Committees be named of the Committee:
V. Allenby of Megiddo
B. Anelay of St. Johns
V. Bledisloe
L. Burlison
L. Burnham
E. Caithness
L. Carter
L. Clarke of Hampstead
L. Denham
E. Ferrers
B. Gould of Potternewton
B. Hamwee
L. Harris of Greenwich
L. Henley
L. Irvine of Lairg (Lord Chancellor)
B. Jay of Paddington (Lord Privy Seal)
L. Kimball
B. Lockwood
L. Mackay of Ardbrecknish
L. Mancroft
L. Rodgers of Quarry Bank
L. Shepherd
V. Simon
L. Skelmersdale
L. Strabolgi
L. Strathclyde
L. Tordoff
L. Weatherill
L. Williams of Mostyn;

the motion was agreed to.

14.Standing Orders (Private Bills)—It was moved by the Chairman of Committees that a Select Committee on the Standing Orders relating to private bills be appointed and that, as proposed by the Committee of Selection, the following Lords together with the Chairman of Committees be named of the Committee:
B. Ashton of Upholland
L. Brett
V. Bridgeman
L. Brougham and Vaux
V. Falkland
E. Liverpool
E. Sandwich;

the motion was agreed to.

15.Hybrid Instruments—It was moved by the Chairman of Committees that a Select Committee be appointed to consider hybrid instruments and that, as proposed by the Committee of Selection, the following Lords together with the Chairman of Committees be named of the Committee:
L. Brougham and Vaux
L. Burnham
E. Courtown
V. Craigavon
L. King of West Bromwich
B. Thomas of Walliswood
B. Wilkins;

the motion was agreed to.

16.Parliamentary Office of Science and Technology (POST)—It was moved by the Chairman of Committees that, as proposed by the Committee of Selection, the following Lords be appointed to serve as members of the Board of the Parliamentary Office of Science and Technology (POST):
E. Erroll
L. Flowers
L. Oxburgh
L. Winston;

the motion was agreed to.

17.Parliamentary Broadcasting Unit Limited (PARBUL)—It was moved by the Chairman of Committees that, as proposed by the Committee of Selection, the following Lords be named as members of the Parliamentary Broadcasting Unit Limited (PARBUL):
L. Boston of Faversham
L. Burnham
L. Thomson of Monifieth;

the motion was agreed to.

18.Statutory Instruments—It was moved by the Chairman of Committees, on behalf of the Committee of Selection, that the Earl of Onslow be appointed a member of the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments in the place of the Lord Burnham; the motion was agreed to.

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19.European Union—It was moved by the Chairman of Committees that a Select Committee be appointed to consider European Union documents and other matters relating to the European Union;

That the expression “European Union documents” shall include the following documents:

(i)Any proposal under the Community Treaties for legislation by the Council or the Council acting jointly with the European Parliament;
(ii)Any document which is published for submission to the European Council, the Council or the European Central Bank;
(iii)Any proposal for a common strategy, a joint action or a common position under Title V (provisions on a common foreign and security policy) of the Treaty on European Union which is prepared for submission to the Council or to the European Council;
(iv)Any proposal for a common position, framework decision, decision or a convention under Title VI (provisions on police and judicial co-operation in criminal matters) of the Treaty on European Union which is prepared for submission to the Council;
(v)Any document (not falling within (ii), (iii) or (iv) above) which is published by one Union institution for or with a view to submission to another Union institution and which does not relate exclusively to consideration of any proposal for legislation;
(vi)Any other document relating to European Union matters deposited in the House by a Minister of the Crown;

That, as proposed by the Committee of Selection, the following Lords be named of the Committee:

V. Bledisloe
L. Borrie
L. Brooke of Alverthorpe
V. Brookeborough
B. Crawley
L. Goodhart
L. Hope of Craighead
L. Howell of Guildford
L. Hussey of North Bradley
L. Lamont of Lerwick
B. O’Cathain
E. Selborne
L. Tomlinson
L. Tordoff (Chairman)
L. Trefgarne
L. Wallace of Saltaire
L. Williams of Elvel
L. Willoughby de Broke;

That the Committee have power to appoint sub-committees and to refer to such sub-committees any of the matters within the terms of reference of the Committee; that the Committee have power to appoint the Chairmen of sub-committees, but that such sub-committees have power to appoint their own Chairman for the purpose of particular inquiries; that two be the quorum of such sub-committees;

That the Committee have power to co-opt any Lord for the purpose of serving on a sub-committee;

That the Committee have power to appoint specialist advisers;

That the Committee and any sub-committee have power to adjourn from place to place;

That the Committee have leave to report from time to time;

That the Reports of the Select Committee from time to time shall be printed, notwithstanding any adjournment of the House;

That the minutes of evidence taken before the European Communities Committee or any sub-committee thereof in the last session of Parliament be referred to the Committee: and

That the Committee do meet on Tuesday 7th December at a quarter-past four o’clock;

the motion was agreed to.

20.European Union Proposals: Scrutiny Reserve—It was moved by the Baroness Jay of Paddington to resolve that:
(1)No Minister of the Crown should give agreement in the Council to any proposal for European Community legislation or for a common strategy, joint action or common position under Title V or a common position, framework decision, decision or convention under Title VI of the Treaty on European Union—
(a)which is still subject to scrutiny (that is, on which the European Union Committee has not completed its scrutiny); and
(b)on which the European Union Committee has made a report to the House for debate, but on which the debate has not yet taken place.
(2)In this Resolution, any reference to agreement to a proposal includes—
(a)agreement to a programme, plan or recommendation for European Community legislation;
(b)political agreement;
(c)in the case of a proposal on which the Council acts in accordance with the procedure referred to in Article 251 of the Treaty establishing the European Community (co-decision), agreement to a common position, to an act in the form of a common

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  position incorporating amendments proposed by the European Parliament, and to a joint text; and
(d)in the case of a proposal on which the Council acts in accordance with the procedure referred to in Article 252 of the Treaty establishing the European Community (co-operation), agreement to a common position.
(3)The Minister concerned may, however, give agreement to a proposal which is still subject to scrutiny or which is awaiting debate in the House—
(a)if he considers that it is confidential, routine or trivial or is substantially the same as a proposal on which scrutiny has been completed;
(b)if the European Union Committee has indicated that agreement need not be withheld pending completion of scrutiny or the holding of the debate.
(4)The Minister concerned may also give agreement to a proposal which is still subject to scrutiny or awaiting debate in the House if he decides that for special reasons agreement should be given; but he should explain his reasons—
(a)in every such case, to the European Union Committee at the first opportunity after reaching his decision; and
(b)in the case of a proposal awaiting debate in the House, to the House at the opening of the debate on the Committee’s Report.
(5)In relation to any proposal which requires adoption by unanimity, abstention shall, for the purposes of paragraph (4), be treated as giving agreement;

the motion was agreed to.

21.Local Government Bill [HL]—It was moved by the Lord Whitty that the bill be now read a second time; after debate, the motion was agreed to and the bill was committed to a Committee of the Whole House.
22.Digital broadcasting to the deaf and hard of hearing—The Baroness Anelay of St Johns asked Her Majesty’s Government what they consider will be the impact of the digital broadcasting revolution on the 8.7 million deaf and hard of hearing people who live in the United Kingdom; after debate, the question was answered by the Lord McIntosh of Haringey.

The House was adjourned at ten minutes past eleven o’clock
till tomorrow, half-past two o’clock.