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Lord Whitty: My Lords, perhaps I may first respond to the comments made about my amendments and then comment on the noble Earl's amendments. The amendments previously tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, related to the registration of professional drivers for all types of motor vehicle. We have not explicitly included that within the amendments but the Government hope to be able to deal with the matter at a later stage. The complication of doing what the noble Baroness wanted in that regard proved to be too great for us, even in a

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complicated amendment such as ours. I am afraid that the timescale defeated us but we have dealt with the priority areas of her previous amendment.

As regards the respective powers and responsibilities of the Home Office and the DETR, mentioned by the noble Baroness and the noble Earl, my civil servants will always tell me that that is a matter for the Prime Minister and I that could not possibly comment. Nevertheless, there is a high degree of co-operation between my department and the Home Office on this matter. I hope that in this area, as in others, penalties are not simply a question of retribution, as the noble Earl seemed to understand, but also of improvement, education and retraining. There may be a better or more complementary form of treating an offence than the traditional form of penalty. Retraining and retesting will feature in the forthcoming Home Office consultation on Road Traffic Act penalties which will be published soon.

Amendment No. 312 falls within the process to which I have referred; namely, it will form part of the Home Office consultation paper. As regards Amendment No. 320, which deals with MoD drivers, the MoD has not sought the provision nor does it want to see it in place. Its wish is for greater integration with the general arrangements rather than seeking exemptions for its staff and former staff. That is evidenced by the MoD encouraging its staff to join the voluntary register of lorry driving instructors that is maintained by the DSA. That means that they will pass the same entrance exams. Obviously, the MoD has a major interest in driver training and we need better links between it and the DSA. Incidentally, the DSA has a significant role in achieving a greater professionalism among driver instructors. It benefits them as a profession, it benefits their clients and it benefits road safety. However, in taking on instructors it is important that the co-operation delivers instructors who can meet the same standards as others. It may be that in most cases the MoD instructors will waltz through the provision, but so they should.

Amendment No. 329 would prevent individuals being employed to ride motorcycles before they have passed the motorcycle test. That amendment is in the group, although the noble Earl did not refer to it specifically.

Earl Attlee: My Lords, if the Minister refers to the amendment I shall not move it later.

Lord Whitty: My Lords, that makes life easier. The amendment deals with the pizza delivery phenomenon when the people employed to ride "professionally" are on provisional licence. That happens frequently in relation to pizza delivery drivers but rarely in relation to couriers.

Rather than accept the noble Earl's amendment, with which I have some sympathy, we have set up a task force following the road safety strategy to examine all work-related road safety issues. This issue is being considered in that context.

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Amendments Nos. 329A and 329B would have the effect of enabling instructors to certify that the candidates whom they present for the driving test are sufficiently trained to pass the test and that the certificates issued form the basis for collation of instructors' performance data. In a sense, that is transparency, but it is a delicate area. We have enabling powers for prescribing certification and we are committed to better informing the public and getting better information into the public domain about the quality of many different services.

I do not believe that it is necessary to take specific powers but, before I encourage the noble Earl too much, perhaps I may point out that there are data protection and confidentiality issues to be dealt with before we can issue league tables. I am not certain that we want to take the driving instructor profession with us in these reforms, but this would be the most sensible place to begin. Other measures of quality control by the profession and in conjunction with the DSA would be preferable. I therefore hope that the noble Earl will not pursue his amendment.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Lord Whitty moved Amendments Nos. 298 to 300:


    Before Clause 253, insert the following new clause--

REGISTER OF APPROVED INSTRUCTORS: DESTINATION OF APPEALS

(".--(1) Section 131 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (appeals to Secretary of State by persons aggrieved by decision of registrar of approved driving instructors) is amended as follows.
(2) In subsections (1) and (2), for "Secretary of State" substitute "Transport Tribunal".
(3) In subsection (3)--
(a) for "Secretary of State" substitute "Transport Tribunal", and
(b) for "he thinks" substitute "they think".
(4) After subsection (4) insert--
"(4A) If the Tribunal consider that any evidence adduced on an appeal had not been adduced to the Registrar before he gave the decision to which the appeal relates, they may (instead of making an order under subsection (3) above)remit the matter to the Registrar for him to reconsider the decision."").


    Before Clause 253, insert the following new clause--

TAKING EFFECT OF DECISIONS ABOUT INSTRUCTORS

(".--(1) In section 127 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (application to retain name in register of approved instructors), after subsection (7) insert--
"(7A) A decision to refuse an application shall take effect at the end of the period of fourteen days beginning with the day on which notice of the decision is given (or, if any appeal brought against the decision under the following provisions of this Part of this Act is previously withdrawn or dismissed, when the appeal is withdrawn or dismissed).",.
and, in subsection (8), for "A decision to refuse an application shall" substitute "But the Registrar may, when giving notice of his decision to refuse the application, direct that the decision shall instead".
(2) In section 128 of that Act (removal of name from register), after subsection (6) insert--
"(6A) A decision to remove a name from the register shall take effect at the end of the period of fourteen days beginning with the day on which notice of the decision is given (or, if any appeal

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brought against thedecision under the following provisions of this Part of this Act is previously withdrawn or dismissed, when the appeal is withdrawn or dismissed).",.
and, in subsection (7), for "A decision to remove a name from the register shall" substitute "But the Registrar may, when giving notice of his decision to remove the name from the register, direct that the decision shall instead".
(3) In section 130 of that Act (revocation of licence for giving instruction in order to obtain practical experience), for subsection (6) substitute--
"(5A) A decision to revoke a licence shall take effect at the end of the period of fourteen days beginning with the day on which notice of the decision is given (or, if any appeal brought against the decision under the following provisions of this Part of this Act is previously withdrawn or dismissed, when the appeal is withdrawn or dismissed).
(6) But the Registrar may, when giving notice of his decision to revoke a licence, direct that (if an appeal under the following provisions of this Part of this Act is brought against the decision) it shall instead take effect--
(a) if the appeal is withdrawn or struck out for want of prosecution, on the withdrawal or striking out of the appeal, or
(b) if and when the appeal is dismissed, and not otherwise."
(4) In section 131 of that Act (appeals against decisions of registrar), after subsection (4A) (inserted by section (Register of approved instructors: destination of appeals)) insert--
"(4B) A person who is aggrieved by a decision of the Registrar not to give a direction under section 127(8), 128(7) or 130(6) of this Act may by notice in writing appeal to the Transport Tribunal within the period of ten days beginning with the day on which notice of the decision is given.
(4C) The Transport Tribunal shall determine the appeal by either--
(a) giving the direction concerned, or
(b) dismissing the appeal,
within the period of fourteen days beginning with the day on which notice of the decision is given.
(4D) Where the Registrar has decided to refuse an application for the retention of a name in the register, to remove a name from the register or to revoke a licence granted under section 129 of this Act but either--
(a) he gave a direction under section 127(8), 128(7) or 130(6) of this Act, or
(b) the Transport Tribunal have given such a direction on appeal,
he may by notice in writing apply to the Transport Tribunal for an order that the decision is to take effect immediately.
(4E) The Transport Tribunal shall determine the Registrar's application by either granting or refusing the application, within the period of fourteen days beginning with the day on which it is made.
(4F) The Transport Tribunal may only grant the application if they consider that a failure to do so might prejudicially affect--
(a) the well-being of any person to whom the person concerned may give instruction in the driving of a motor car, or
(b) the safety of road users."").


    Before Clause 253, insert the following new clause--


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