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Viscount Bridgeman: My Lords, the Minister has, quite understandably, coupled Amendments Nos. 7 and 8. I have listened to his comments on European legislation and shall study them. I do not intend to press that particular amendment. I should like to uncouple Amendments Nos. 7 and 8. Amendment No. 8 is the nub of our case in this matter. I do not believe that the Minister has addressed the question of negotiation and time-wasting. We have built safeguards into this amendment which applies only to documents to which an NDPB has or can obtain access. We have also built in a provision about the position of the accounting officer. This amendment is fundamental to the Bill. We seek to test the opinion of the House on Amendment No. 4.

4.44 p.m.

On Question, Whether the said amendment (No. 4) shall be agreed to?

Their Lordships divided: Contents, 124; Not-Contents, 122.

Division No. 2


Ackner, L.
Addington, L.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Astor, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Barker, B.
Biffen, L.
Blatch, B.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Byford, B.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carrington, L.
Cavendish of Furness, L.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cowdrey of Tonbridge, L.
Crathorne, L.
Crickhowell, L.
Dacre of Glanton, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Denham, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Ezra, L.
Falkland, V.
Fookes, B.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freeman, L.
Geddes, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goodhart, L.
Goschen, V.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greaves, L.
Hanham, B. [Teller]
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Peckham, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Hayhoe, L.
Henley, L. [Teller]
Higgins, L.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Holderness, L.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Hooper, B.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Jacobs, L.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Liverpool, E.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
Macfarlane of Bearsden, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Montrose, D.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Naseby, L.
Newby, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
O'Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Oxfuird, V.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Peel, E.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plumb, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Prior, L.
Redesdale, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Roper, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Russell, E.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sanderson of Bowden, L.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selsdon, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Stodart of Leaston, L.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L.
Taverne, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Waddington, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Warnock, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Young, B.


Acton, L.
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Bach, L. [Teller]
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Billingham, B.
Blackstone, B.
Blease, L.
Borrie, L.
Brett, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Carter, L. [Teller]
Christopher, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Crawley, B.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Desai, L.
Dixon, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Ewing of Kirkford, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gavron, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gilbert, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Goldsmith, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grenfell, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harrison, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayman, B.
Healey, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L. (Lord Chancellor)
Islwyn, L.
Jeger, B.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Layard, L.
Lipsey, L.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Mishcon, L.
Mitchell, L.
Morgan, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Nicol, B.
Parekh, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Peston, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Richard, L.
Rogers of Riverside, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Serota, B.
Sewel, L.
Shepherd, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Simon, V.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Warner, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.

Resolved in the affirmative, and amendment agreed to accordingly.

12 Jul 2000 : Column 254

4.54 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Serota): My Lords, if Amendment No. 5 is agreed to, I cannot call Amendment No. 6.

Lord Higgins moved Amendment No. 5:

    Page 5, line 32, leave out ("of the documents relating to the department's accounts") and insert ("relevant documents").

On Question, amendment agreed to.

[Amendments Nos. 6 and 7 not moved.]

Lord Higgins moved Amendment No. 8:

    Page 5, line 38, leave out from ("documents") to end of line 42 and insert ("--

(a) which are held or controlled by a government department or a relevant non-departmental public body, or
(b) which are documents to which a government department or a relevant non-departmental public body has, or can obtain, access.").

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Lord Higgins moved Amendment No. 9:

    Page 6, line 2, at end insert--

("(4) The rights of access conferred by subsection (1) shall not be exercisable in relation to any document relating primarily to accounts which--
(a) are subject to audit by the Auditor General for Scotland or the Auditor General for Wales, and are not also subject to audit by the Comptroller and Auditor General, or
(b) are subject to audit under section 2 of the Audit Commission Act 1998 or section 97 of the Local Government (Scotland) Act 1973 and do not relate to a body specified in section 98(1) of the National Health Service Act 1977.
(5) In this section "relevant non-departmental public body" means a non-departmental public body which is one for which the department whose accounts are undergoing examination is responsible; and for this purpose "non-departmental public body" means a body--
(a) which is not a government department or comprised within a government department,
(b) which exercises public functions of a governmental nature which might otherwise fall to be exercised by central government, and
(c) an officer of which has been designated by a government department as its accounting officer in respect of the preparation of its accounts.").

On Question, amendment agreed to.

12 Jul 2000 : Column 255

Clause 30 [Commencement]:

Lord McIntosh of Haringey moved Amendment No. 10:

    Page 15, line 14, leave out ("19") and insert ("20").

The noble Lord said: My Lords, unlike the rest of the Bill the clauses relating to Partnerships UK are to come into force as soon as Royal Assent is achieved. Therefore, when we added at Report stage the clause enabling the devolved administrations to invest in Partnerships UK, now Clause 20, we should also have amended the commencement procedures. Due to an oversight, for which I apologise, we failed to do so. The amendment corrects that oversight. I beg to move.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

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