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The Deputy Chairman of Committees: My Lords, as a Division has been called in the Chamber, the Committee stands adjourned for ten minutes.

[The Sitting was suspended for a Division in the House from 3.59 to 4.09 p.m.]

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Schedule 6 [Transfer schemes]:

Lord Macdonald of Tradeston moved Amendments Nos. 17 to 20:


    Page 187, line 48, at end insert--


("( ) an instrument or instruments under paragraph 9;").


    Page 188, line 1, leave out from ("effect") to end of line 3 and insert ("in relation to an agreement under paragraph 11 by virtue of sub-paragraph (1), sub-paragraph (2)(b) of paragraph 14 shall be disregarded.").


    Page 188, line 7, after ("11,") insert--


("( ) an instrument under paragraph 9,").


    Page 188, line 10, at end insert ("or the instrument").

On Question, amendments agreed to.

Schedule 6, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 61 agreed to.

Schedule 7 [Transfer schemes: tax]:

Lord Macdonald of Tradeston moved Amendments Nos. 21 to 24:


    Page 195, line 13, after ("6,") insert--


("( ) an instrument executed under paragraph 9 of Schedule 6,").


    Page 195, line 24, after ("6") insert ("or is effected by an instrument executed under paragraph 9 of that Schedule").


    Page 195, line 33, after ("agreement") insert ("or instrument").


    Page 195, line 34, after ("agreement") insert ("or instrument").

On Question, amendments agreed to.

Schedule 7, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 62 [Interpretation]:

Lord Macdonald of Tradeston moved Amendments Nos. 25 and 26:


    Page 41, line 3, at end insert--


("( ) a Northern Ireland Minister;").


    Page 41, line 18, at end insert--


("( ) "Northern Ireland Minister" includes the First Minister and the deputy First Minister in Northern Ireland.").

On Question, amendments agreed to.

Clause 62, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 63 [Air navigation: directions]:

Lord McIntosh of Haringey moved Amendment No. 27:


    Page 42, line 16, leave out subsections (5) and (6).

The noble Lord said: In moving Amendment No. 27 I shall speak also to Amendments Nos. 28 to 33. Clause 63 provides that the Secretary of State nominates a member of the Civil Aviation Authority to perform air navigation functions, and it goes on to provide for national security functions. These amendments provide that the Secretary of State should in addition have the power to nominate another member of the Civil Aviation Authority to consider the relationships between air navigation functions and national security. If there is a difference of opinion between the nominee and the Civil Aviation Authority about those activities, and if the nominee thinks that if the Civil Aviation Authority's opinion prevailed it could have effect contrary to the interest of national

27 Jun 2000 : Column CWH12

security, the CAA must refer the matter to the Secretary of State. The Secretary of State must consult the CAA before giving directions to it as he thinks fit.

In practice there would be a non-executive member of the Civil Aviation Authority appointed on the recommendation of the Secretary of State for Defence, and the national security nominee will be that member. That is provided for in the substantive Amendment No. 29. It was felt that the member nominated to perform the air navigation function should balance civil and military interests, as he is required to do under Clause 63(1), while the MOD-nominated member would be in a better position to represent the interests of national security. The national security nominee may authorise a member or employee of the Civil Aviation Authority to act on his behalf.

The current definition of "managed area" is contained in Clause 68, which is concerned with interpretation. At present the term includes any area outside the United Kingdom in which the United Kingdom has undertaken to provide air traffic services. The final proposed amendment, Amendment No. 33, revises the definition to apply to air navigation services. I beg to move.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Lord McIntosh of Haringey moved Amendment No. 28:


    Page 42, line 30, leave out from ("subsection") to end of line 32.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Clause 63, as amended, agreed to.

Lord McIntosh of Haringey moved Amendment No. 29:


    After Clause 63, insert the following new clause--


NATIONAL SECURITY
(".--(1) The Secretary of State may nominate a member of the CAA for the purposes of this section, and in this section references to the national security nominee are to the person nominated under this section.
(2) Subsection (3) applies if--
(a) there is a difference of opinion between the national security nominee and the CAA,
(b) the difference of opinion relates to the CAA's air navigation functions, and
(c) the national security nominee thinks that if the CAA's opinion prevailed it could have an effect contrary to the interests of national security.
(3) In such a case--
(a) the CAA must refer the matter to the Secretary of State, and
(b) after consulting the CAA the Secretary of State may give it such directions regarding the matter as he thinks fit.
(4) The national security nominee may authorise a member or employee of the CAA to perform on his behalf the functions which he is to perform by virtue of this section; and while such an authorisation is effective references in subsection (2) to the national security nominee are to the person authorised under this subsection.").

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Clause 64 agreed to.

27 Jun 2000 : Column CWH13

Clause 65 [Directions: supplementary]:

Lord McIntosh of Haringey moved Amendments Nos. 30 to 32:


    Page 42, line 44, leave out ("or (6) or section") and insert (", (National security)(3) or").


    Page 43, line 1, leave out ("or (6) or section") and insert (", (National security)(3) or").


    Page 43, line 11, leave out ("63(6)") and insert ("(National security)(3)").

On Question, amendments agreed to.

Clause 65, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 66 and 67 agreed to.

Clause 68 [Interpretation]:

Lord Mcintosh of Haringey moved Amendment No. 33:


    Page 45, line 7, leave out ("provide air traffic services") and insert ("carry out activities with regard to air navigation").

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Clause 68, as amended, agreed to.

4.15 p.m.

Clause 69 [Charges for services]:

Lord Macdonald of Tradeston moved Amendment No. 34:


    Page 45, line 13, leave out ("traffic").

The noble Lord said: The most important aspects of this group of amendments to Chapter IV of the Bill relate to the introduction of three new clauses. In the first new clause (Amendment No. 45), together with Amendments Nos. 34 and 40, we are seeking to allow the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) to charge for certain services that it provides. Those are where the CAA provides services in the performance of air navigation functions under Chapter III, for which Eurocontrol is to collect charges under the Eurocontrol agreement; and the CAA may include an amount in respect of specifying, publication and recovery, where under that agreement, Eurocontrol collects a charge in respect of the specification and publication of that charge and its recovery.

Currently the Civil Aviation (Route Charges for Navigation Services) Regulations 1999 provide that aircraft operators must pay charges to Eurocontrol in respect of navigation services made available in specified airspace. Post-PPP, instead of the Secretary of State making regulations to set our charges, the CAA will have responsibility for specifying those charges, and hence it is intended that the powers in the Bill will be sufficient to enable it to do so. The meaning of "chargeable air traffic services", as currently drafted in Clause 73, would not include all of the CAA's services provided in performing its Chapter III air navigation functions, nor would that provision allow recovery of the CAA's Chapter IV cost of specifying, publishing or recovery. Where these services are properly recoverable through Eurocontrol the CAA should be allowed to do so and that is what these amendments will achieve.

27 Jun 2000 : Column CWH14

The second new clause (Amendment No. 46) places further duties on the CAA and provides that the CAA must specify charges under Clause 69, if it thinks that it should do so in order for the United Kingdom's international agreements to be fulfilled. Further it must exercise those powers in a manner best calculated to take account of those agreements. The CAA must also exercise the power to specify in relation to Clause 73(2)(b) services--air traffic services that are provided outside the UK by international agreement-- currently those in the Shanwick Oceanic Area, if it thinks that it should do so to enable the provider of these services to be paid for their provision.

The third new clause in this group (Amendment No. 47) seeks to ensure that, where information is given to the Secretary of State by the CAA concerning services and performing air navigation functions, or a licence holder concerning air traffic services, proposing the charges to be submitted to Eurocontrol, the Secretary of State must as far as practicable ensure that the information is given to Eurocontrol. However, that duty does not apply to information given by a licence holder if the CAA tells the Secretary of State that the giving of the information to Eurocontrol could result in the licence holder being paid charges, the calculation of which was in contravention of the provisions of the licence.

This new clause also ensures that if money is received by the Government from Eurocontrol in respect of those services, then the Secretary of State must as far as practicable ensure that the money is paid to the provider of the service. Similarly, if money is due to be paid by Eurocontrol, the Secretary of State must, as far as practicable, ensure that the money which falls to be paid, falls to be paid by Eurocontrol to the service provider. The reference to money being received by the UK Government is to money being received by a person on behalf of the Government.

Amendment No. 35 is in consequence of the new clause, Clause 46(1)(b).

Amendment No. 41 ensures that the CAA cannot charge for the same service both as an air traffic service and as one which it provides in performing its Chapter III air navigation functions.

Amendments Nos. 48 and 49 provide the meaning of the "Eurocontrol agreement" and "Licence holder" for inclusion in the interpretation Clause 77. Amendment No. 42 is in consequence of Amendment No. 48.

The remaining Amendments Nos. 36 to 39, 43 and 44 are consequential upon Amendments Nos. 34 and 40. I beg to move.


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