House of Lords Journal 232 (Session 1998-99)


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Thursday 4 November 1999

The House met at three o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Addison, V.
Ahmed, L.
Ailesbury, M.
Ailsa, M.
Alanbrooke, V.
Alderdice, L.
Aldington, L.
Alexander of Tunis, E.
Allen of Abbeydale, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St. Johns, B.
Annaly, L.
Annan, L.
Archer of Weston-Super-Mare, L.
Arlington, B.
Arran, E.
Ashbourne, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Astor, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Banbury of Southam, L.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Bathurst, E.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Beaverbrook, L.
Belhaven and Stenton, L.
Berkeley, L.
Berners, B.
Bethell, L.
Biddulph, L.
Biffen, L.
Birdwood, L.
Blatch, B.
Blease, L.
Bledisloe, V.
Blood, B.
Blyth, L.
Boardman, L.
Borrie, L.
Boston, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradford, Bp.
Bradshaw, L.
Bragg, L.
Bramall, L.
Braybrooke, L.
Brentford, V.
Brett, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brightman, L.
Brigstocke, B.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookeborough, V.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Bruntisfield, L.
Buckinghamshire, E.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Burns, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butler of Brockwell, L.
Butterworth, L.
Byford, B.
Cadman, L.
Caithness, E.
Calverley, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carew, L.
Carlile of Berriew, L.
Carlisle, E.
Carnarvon, E.
Carnock, L.
Carr of Hadley, L.
Carrick, E.
Carrington, L.
Carter, L.
Cathcart, E.
Chadlington, L.
Chalfont, L.
Chandos, V.
Charteris of Amisfield, L.
Chesham, L.
Chichester, Bp.
Christopher, L.
Clancarty, E.
Clanwilliam, E.
Clark of Kempston, L.

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Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Clwyd, L.
Cobbold, L.
Cochrane of Cults, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Coleridge, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Congleton, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cowdray, V.
Cowdrey of Tonbridge, L.
Cowley, E.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Craigmyle, L.
Crawley, B.
Cromwell, L.
Cross, V.
Cuckney, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Dahrendorf, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
Darnley, E.
Dartmouth, E.
David, B.
Davidson, V.
Davies, L.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Denbigh, E.
Denham, L.
Desai, L.
Devonport, V.
Dholakia, L.
Dilhorne, V.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donegall, M.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Downshire, M.
Drogheda, E.
Dubs, L.
Dundee, E.
Dunrossil, V.
Eames, L.
Ebury, L.
Eccles, V.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Effingham, E.
Elder, L.
Ellenborough, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Erne, E.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Ewing of Kirkford, L.
Exmouth, V.
Ezra, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Fellowes, L.
Ferrers, E.
Filkin, L.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Forbes, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freyberg, L.
Gainford, L.
Gale, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Geddes, L.
Geraint, L.
Gibson, L.
Gilbert, L.
Gilmour of Craigmillar, L.
Gisborough, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Gladwyn, L.
Glanusk, L.
Glasgow, E.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goldsmith, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gormanston, V.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Grabiner, L.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grantley, L.
Gray, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greenway, L.
Greenwood, V.
Gregson, L.
Grenfell, L.
Gretton, L.
Grey, E.
Hacking, L.
Haddington, E.
Haig, E.
Hampden, V.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hankey, L.
Hanningfield, L.
Hanworth, V.
Harding of Petherton, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harmar-Nicholls, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harrowby, E.
Hawke, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Hayter, L.
Hemphill, L.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hogg, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Holderness, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
HolmPatrick, L.
Home, E.
Hood, V.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Howe, E.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Tanworth, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Huntingdon, E.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Hylton, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Iddesleigh, E.
Ilchester, E.
Inchyra, L.
Inglewood, L.
Ironside, L.
Islwyn, L.
Iveagh, E.
Jacobs, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeger, B.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Jopling, L.
Judd, L.
Kenilworth, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kennet, L.
Kenyon, L.
Kilbracken, L.
Kimball, L.
Kimberley, E.
Kingsland, L.
Kinloss, Ly.
Kinnoull, E.
Kintore, E.
Kirkwood, L.
Kitchener, E.
Knollys, V.
Laing of Dunphail, L.
Laird, L.
Laming, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Lauderdale, E.
Lawrence, L.
Layton, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Leigh, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Levy, L.
Lindsay, E.
Lindsey and Abingdon, E.
Lipsey, L.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Londesborough, L.
Long, V.
Longford, E.

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Lovell-Davis, L.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
Lytton, E.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McFarlane of Llandaff, B.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
Mackintosh of Halifax, V.
McNair, L.
McNally, L.
Macpherson of Drumochter, L.
Maddock, B.
Malmesbury, E.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massereene and Ferrard, V.
Massey of Darwen, B.
May, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Merrivale, L.
Mersey, V.
Methuen, L.
Middleton, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Mills, V.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Milverton, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monk Bretton, L.
Monkswell, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montague of Oxford, L.
Monteagle of Brandon, L.
Montrose, D.
Moran, L.
Morris, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mountevans, L.
Moyne, L.
Moynihan, L.
Munster, E.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Napier and Ettrick, L.
Naseby, L.
Nelson, E.
Newall, L.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicholson of Winterbourne, B.
Noel-Buxton, L.
Norfolk, D.
Norrie, L.
Northbourne, L.
Northesk, E.
Northfield, L.
Norton, L.
Norton of Louth, L.
Nunburnholme, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Ogmore, L.
Oliver of Aylmerton, L.
Onslow, E.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Orme, L.
Oxfuird, V.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patten, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Peel, E.
Pender, L.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Poole, L.
Portland, E.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Quinton, L.
Quirk, L.
Radnor, E.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rathcavan, L.
Rawlings, B.
Rawlinson of Ewell, L.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennard, L.
Rennell, L.
Renton, L.
Renwick, L.
Richard, L.
Richardson of Calow, B.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rochester, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogers of Riverside, L.
Roll of Ipsden, L.
Romney, E.
Rosslyn, E.
Rotherwick, L.
Rowallan, L.
Roxburghe, D.
Russell, E.
Ryder of Warsaw, B.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Saatchi, L.
Saint Albans, D.
St. Davids, V.
St. Germans, E.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Saint Oswald, L.
Sandberg, L.
Sandford, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sandys, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Seaford, L.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Selsdon, L.
Sempill, L.
Serota, B.
Sewel, L.
Shannon, E.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sharples, B.
Shaughnessy, L.
Shepherd, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Shrewsbury, E.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Simon of Highbury, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Slim, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Stafford, L.
Stair, E.
Stallard, L.
Stanley of Alderley, L.
Stern, B.
Stockton, E.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strafford, E.
Strange, B.
Strathalmond, L.
Strathcarron, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Strathcona and Mt. Royal, L.
Sudeley, L.
Swansea, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Gryfe, L.
Temple of Stowe, E.
Tenby, V.
Teviot, L.
Teynham, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Swynnerton, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Thurlow, L.
Thurso, V.
Tollemache, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Torrington, V.

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Trefgarne, L.
Trenchard, V.
Trumpington, B.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Ullswater, V.
Vinson, L.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walpole, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Weatherill, L.
Weir, V.
Westbury, L.
Wharton, B.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wigram, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Willoughby de Broke, L.
Winchester, M.
Winchilsea and Nottingham, E.
Wise, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Wynford, L.
Young, B.

Judicial Business

1.Appeal Committee—The 70th Report was made; the Appeal Committee reported that they had met and had heard Counsel; the report was agreed to and the following Orders were made—

Regina v. District Court Martial at Bulford and another (Respondents) ex parte Bowyer (A.P.) (Petitioner)—That leave to appeal be refused and that the costs of the petitioner be taxed in accordance with the Legal Aid Act 1988.

Twinsectra Limited (Respondents) v. Yardley and others (Petitioners) (First petition)—That leave to appeal be given, and that the petition of appeal be lodged by 17th November next.

Twinsectra Limited (Respondents) v. Yardley and others (Petitioners) (Second petition)—That leave to appeal be given, and that the petition of appeal be lodged by 17th November next.

MSC Mediterranean Shipping Company SA (Respondents) v. Owners of the Ship “Tychy”(Petitioners)—That leave to appeal be refused; and that the petitioners do pay to the respondents the costs of the petition, the amount thereof to be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Poseidon Schiffahrt Gmbh (Petitioners) v. Nomadic Navigation Company Limited (Respondents)—That leave to appeal be refused; and that the petitioners do pay to the respondents the costs of the petition, the amount thereof to be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

2.Appeal Committee—The 71st Report from the Appeal Committee was agreed to and the following Order was made—

Lancashire County Council and another (Respondents) v. Barlow and another (Petitioners) and one other action—That the respondents be invited to lodge objections by 18th November next.

Papers

3.Command Papers—The following papers were presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Regulatory Impact Assessments—Regulatory Impact Assessments for January–June 1999;
 (—)
2.Royal Patriotic Fund Corporation—Report for 1998 of the Royal Patriotic Fund Corporation.
 (—)
4.Affirmative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Draft Local Elections (Northern Ireland) (Amendment) Order 1999;
2.Draft Maternity and Parental Leave etc. Regulations 1999.
5.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Report and Financial Statements for 1998–99 of East Midlands Development Company Limited by guarantee, laid under the Miscellaneous Financial Provisions Act 1983;
2.Report for 1998–99 of the Arts Council of Northern Ireland National Lottery Fund, laid under the National Lottery etc. Act 1993.

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Private Business

6.City of London (Ward Elections) Bill—It was moved by the Chairman of Committees that this House do agree with the orders made by the Commons set out in their message of yesterday; the motion was agreed to.
7.Kent County Council Bill [HL]—
8.Medway Council Bill [HL]—
9.City of Newcastle upon Tyne Bill [HL]—

It was moved by the Chairman of Committees that the promoters of each bill have leave to suspend any further proceedings thereon in order to proceed with it, if they think fit, in the next session of Parliament, provided that notice of their intention to do so is lodged in the Office of the Clerk of the Parliaments not later than 12 noon on Tuesday 9th November and that all fees due on or before that day have been paid;

That such bill be deposited in the Office of the Clerk of the Parliaments not later than noon on the second sitting day in the next session with a declaration annexed, signed by the agent, stating that the bill is the same in every respect as the bill at the last stage of the proceedings thereon in this House in the present session;

That the proceedings on such bill in the next session of Parliament be pro forma in regard to every stage through which the bill has passed in the present session, and that no new fees be charged to such stages;

That the Private Business Standing Orders apply to such bill in the next session only in regard to any stage through which the bill has not passed during the present session;

the motion was agreed to; it was ordered that a message be sent to the Commons desiring their agreement thereto.

10.Alliance & Leicester plc (Group Reorganisation) Bill [HL] formerly Girobank plc (Transfer) Bill [HL]—A message was brought from the Commons, that they have made the following orders:

That the Promoters of the Alliance & Leicester plc (Group Reorganisation) Bill [Lords] shall have leave to suspend proceedings thereon in order to proceed with the Bill, if they think fit, in the next Session of Parliament, provided that the Agents for the Bill give notice to the Clerks in the Private Bill Office of their intention to suspend further proceedings not later than the day before the close of the present Session and that all Fees due on the Bill up to that date be paid;

That, if the Bill is brought from the Lords in the next Session, the Agents for the Bill shall deposit in the Private Bill Office a declaration signed by them, stating that the Bill is the same, in every respect, as the Bill which was brought from the Lords in the present Session;

That, as soon as a certificate by one of the Clerks in the Private Bill Office, that such a declaration has been so deposited, has been laid upon the Table of the House, the Bill shall be read the first and second time and committed (and shall be recorded in the Journal of this House as having been so read and committed);

That since no Petitions remain against the Bill no Petitioners shall be heard before any committee on the Bill save those who complain of any amendment as proposed in the filled up Bill or of any matter which arises during the progress of the Bill before the committee;

That no further Fees shall be charged in respect of any proceedings on the Bill in respect of which Fees have already been incurred during the present Session;

That these Orders be Standing Orders of the House.

11.United Reformed Church Bill [HL]—A message was brought from the Commons, that they have made the following orders:

That the Promoters of the United Reformed Church Bill [Lords] shall have leave to suspend proceedings thereon in order to proceed with the Bill, if they think fit, in the next Session of Parliament, provided that the Agents for the Bill give notice to the Clerks in the Private Bill Office not later than the day before the close of the present Session of their intention to suspend further proceedings and that all Fees due on the Bill up to that date be paid;

That, if the Bill is brought from the Lords in the next Session, the Agents for the Bill shall deposit in the Private Bill Office a declaration signed by them, stating that the Bill is the same, in every respect, as the Bill which was brought from the Lords in the present Session;

That, as soon as a certificate by one of the Clerks in the Private Bill Office, that such a declaration has been so deposited, has been laid upon the Table of the House, the Bill shall be read the first time and shall be ordered to be read the second time (and shall be recorded in the Journal of this House as having been so read);

That, no Petitions against the Bill having been presented within the time limited during the present Session, no Petitioners shall be heard before any committee on the Bill save those who complain of any amendment as proposed in the filled up Bill or of any matter which arises during the progress of the Bill before the committee;

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That no further Fees shall be charged in respect of any proceedings on the Bill in respect of which Fees have already been incurred during the present Session;

That these Orders be Standing Orders of the House.

Public Business

12.Mental Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill—The order of commitment was discharged.
13.Monetary Policy Committee—It was moved by the Lord Peston that this House take note of the Report of the Select Committee on the Monetary Policy Committee of the Bank of England (HL Paper 96); after debate, the motion was agreed to.
14.Welfare Reform and Pensions Bill—The bill was returned from the Commons with certain amendments agreed to; with certain other amendments disagreed to but with amendments to the words so restored to the bill; with certain other amendments disagreed to but with amendments in lieu thereof; and with the remaining amendments disagreed to with reasons for such disagreement; it was ordered that the Commons amendments and reasons be printed. (HL Bill 99)
15.Tourism—The Lord Swinfen asked Her Majesty’s Government what steps they consider should be taken to ensure that the Tourism For All initiative is a success; after debate, the question was answered by the Baroness Ramsay of Cartvale.

The House was adjourned at sixteen minutes past ten o’clock
till tomorrow, eleven o’clock.