House of Lords Journal 232 (Session 1998-99)


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Monday 18 October 1999

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:


Abercorn, D.
Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Addison, V.
Ahmed, L.
Ailesbury, M.
Ailsa, M.
Alexander of Tunis, E.
Allen of Abbeydale, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St. Johns, B.
Annan, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Arlington, B.
Arran, E.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Astor, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Balfour of Inchrye, L.
Banbury of Southam, L.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaverbrook, L.
Belhaven and Stenton, L.
Bell, L.
Berkeley, L.
Biddulph, L.
Biffen, L.
Birdwood, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Blease, L.
Blyth, L.
Boardman, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.

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Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bragg, L.
Braybrooke, L.
Brentford, V.
Brett, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brightman, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butler of Brockwell, L.
Butterworth, L.
Byford, B.
Cadman, L.
Caithness, E.
Calverley, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carew, L.
Carlile of Berriew, L.
Carlisle, E.
Carrick, E.
Carter, L.
Chadlington, L.
Chalfont, L.
Chalker of Wallasey, B.
Chesham, L.
Chorley, L.
Christopher, L.
Clancarty, E.
Clanwilliam, E.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Coleraine, L.
Colwyn, L.
Cooke of Thorndon, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Craigmyle, L.
Cranborne, V.
Crathorne, L.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Cross, V.
Cumberlege, B.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Dahrendorf, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davidson, V.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Denham, L.
Denton of Wakefield, B.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Diamond, L.
Digby, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Downshire, M.
Drogheda, E.
Dubs, L.
Dudley, E.
Eatwell, L.
Eccles, V.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Eden of Winton, L.
Effingham, E.
Elder, L.
Ellenborough, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Emerton, B.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Exmouth, V.
Ezra, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Ferrers, E.
Filkin, L.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Forteviot, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freeman, L.
Freyberg, L.
Gage, V.
Gainford, L.
Gale, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Geddes, L.
Geraint, L.
Gilbert, L.
Gladwyn, L.
Glanusk, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grantchester, L.
Grantley, L.
Gray, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greenway, L.
Greenwood, V.
Gregson, L.
Grenfell, L.
Grey, E.
Hacking, L.
Hamilton of Dalzell, L.
Hampton, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hankey, L.
Harding of Petherton, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of Peckham, L.
Harrowby, E.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Hayter, L.
Healey, L.
Henley, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Holderness, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
HolmPatrick, L.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Howe, E.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hussey of North Bradley, L.
Hylton, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Inge, L.
Ironside, L.
Islwyn, L.
Iveagh, E.
Jacobs, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeffreys, L.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Johnston of Rockport, L.
Jopling, L.
Kennet, L.
Kenyon, L.
Kilbracken, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kinloss, Ly.
Kinnoull, E.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Knollys, V.
Laird, L.
Laming, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Lauderdale, E.
Lawrence, L.
Layton, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Leathers, V.
Leigh, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Levy, L.
Lichfield, Bp.
Limerick, E.
Lipsey, L.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lloyd of Berwick, L.

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Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Long, V.
Longford, E.
Lovell-Davis, L.
Lucas, L.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McAlpine of West Green, L.
McCarthy, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
Macfarlane of Bearsden, L.
McFarlane of Llandaff, B.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackay of Drumadoon, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mackintosh of Halifax, V.
McNair, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mallalieu, B.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merrivale, L.
Mersey, V.
Meston, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Mishcon, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monk Bretton, L.
Monkswell, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montague of Oxford, L.
Monteagle of Brandon, L.
Montgomery of Alamein, V.
Montrose, D.
Moran, L.
Morris, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mountevans, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moyne, L.
Moynihan, L.
Munster, E.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Napier and Ettrick, L.
Naseby, L.
Nathan, L.
Nelson, E.
Newall, L.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicol, B.
Noel-Buxton, L.
Norfolk, D.
Norrie, L.
Northbourne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Norton, L.
Nunburnholme, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Ogmore, L.
Onslow, E.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Oxford, Bp.
Oxfuird, V.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patten, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Pender, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Peston, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prior, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Pym, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rathcavan, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Reading, M.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennell, L.
Renton, L.
Renwick, L.
Renwick of Clifton, L.
Richard, L.
Richardson of Calow, B.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogers of Riverside, L.
Romney, E.
Rosslyn, E.
Rowallan, L.
Russell, E.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Saatchi, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Saint Albans, D.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandwich, E.
Savile, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Seafield, E.
Seccombe, B.
Sefton of Garston, L.
Selkirk of Douglas, L.
Serota, B.
Sewel, L.
Shannon, E.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sharples, B.
Shaughnessy, L.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shepherd, L.
Sheppard of Liverpool, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Slim, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Southwark, Bp.
Stallard, L.
Stern, B.
Stewartby, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Strathcarron, L.
Strathcona and Mt. Royal, L.
Sudeley, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Gryfe, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Tebbit, L.
Tenby, V.
Teviot, L.
Teynham, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Thurso, V.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Torrington, V.
Trumpington, B.
Tugendhat, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Tweeddale, M.
Uddin, B.
Ullswater, V.
Varley, L.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Waldegrave, E.
Waldegrave of North Hill, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Warner, L.
Warnock, B.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Westbury, L.

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Whaddon, L.
Wharton, B.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Winchilsea and Nottingham, E.
Wise, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Young, B.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Lichfield.

1.Baroness Gale—Anita Gale, having been created Baroness Gale, of Blaenrhondda in the County of Mid Glamorgan, for life by Letters Patent dated in the forenoon of 4th August 1999 (see appendix 1), was introduced between the Baroness Gould of Potternewton and the Lord Davies of Coity, the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod and Garter King of Arms preceding; and took and subscribed the oath pursuant to statute.
2.Lord Waldegrave of North Hill—The Right Honourable William Arthur Waldegrave, having been created Lord Waldegrave of North Hill, of Chewton Mendip in the County of Somerset, for life by Letters Patent dated in the afternoon of 28th July 1999 (see appendix 2), was introduced between the Lord Hussey of North Bradley and the Lord Butler of Brockwell, the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod and Garter King of Arms preceding; and took and subscribed the oath pursuant to statute.

Judicial Business

3.Bullerwell (Petitioner) v. Darlington Insulation Company Limited (Respondents)—The petition of Lawrence Bullerwell praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee. The petitioner’s legal aid certificate was lodged (lodged 16th July).
4.Lancashire County Council and another (Respondents) v. Barlow and another (Petitioners) and one other action—The petition of Lisa Barlow and Paul Brown praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee (lodged 27th August).
5.Appeal Committee—The following Order was made pursuant to the 50th Report—

Regina v. District Court Martial at Bulford and another (Respondents) ex parte Bowyer (A.P.) (Petitioner)—That the petition be referred for hearing.

6.Appeal Committee—The following Orders were made pursuant to the 54th Report—

Regina v. The Family Health Services Appeal Authority and Boots the Chemists (Respondents) ex parte E Moss Limited (Petitioner)—That the petition be referred for hearing.

Regina v. Secretary of State for the Home Department (Petitioner) ex parte Gashi (A.P.) (Respondent)—That leave to appeal be given, and that the petition of appeal be lodged by 1st November next.

Papers

7.Command Papers—The following papers were presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Statistics—Building Trust in Statistics: Government Proposals;
 (4412)
2.Prisons—1998 Prison Statistics for England and Wales.
 (4430)
8.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Road Traffic (Traffic Wardens) Order (Northern Ireland) 1999, laid under the Northern Ireland Act 1974;
 (—)
2. Crown Court (Amendment) Rules 1999, laid under the Supreme Court Act 1981.
 (2838)
9.Paper not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following paper was laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:

Summary Data for 1997 concerning Production and Construction Inquiries, laid under the Transfer of Functions (Economic Statistics) Order 1989.

Select Committee Report

10.Committee for Privileges—The First Report from the Select Committee was made (see appendix 3); it was ordered that the Report be printed. (HL Paper 106)

Public Business

11.Immigration and Asylum Bill—After debate, the report was received; amendments were agreed to; amendments were moved and (by leave of the House) withdrawn; an amendment was agreed to (see division list); further consideration on report was adjourned.

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12.Road traffic: speeding—The Viscount Tenby asked Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to raise public awareness of the dangers of excessive speeding; after debate, the question was answered by the Lord Whitty.
13.Immigration and Asylum Bill—The bill was further considered on report; amendments were moved and (by leave of the House) withdrawn; amendments were agreed to; further consideration on report was adjourned after amendment 105.

The House was adjourned at twenty-five minutes before two o’clock
in the morning of Tuesday 19th October till later the same day,
half-past two o’clock in the afternoon.


DIVISION

IMMIGRATION AND ASYLUM BILL

It was moved by the Lord Williams of Mostyn, after Clause 11 to insert the following new Clause: (Protection of claimants from removal or deportation); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided:

Contents.............129*

Not-Contents.............47

* The Tellers for the Contents reported 129 votes; the Clerks recorded 131 names.

CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Ahmed, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Amos, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Bach, L.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Berkeley, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blease, L.
Bragg, L.
Brett, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Burlison, L.
Carter, L. [Teller]
Christopher, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Crawley, B.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Denham, L.
Desai, L.
Diamond, L.
Dixon, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Eatwell, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Gale, B.
Gilbert, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Gregson, L.
Grenfell, L.
Hacking, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Hayman, B.
Healey, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)
Islwyn, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
(Lord Privy Seal)
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Kilbracken, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Lauderdale, E.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Levy, L.
Lipsey, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Longford, E.
Lovell-Davis, L.
McCarthy, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller]
Mallalieu, B.
Mar, C.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monkswell, L.
Montgomery of Alamein, V.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Nicol, B.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Peston, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Rea, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Richard, L.
Rogers of Riverside, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Sewel, L.
Shepherd, L.
Sheppard of Liverpool, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Gryfe, L.
Tenby, V.
Thornton, B.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Varley, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.

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Warner, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Addington, L.
Ailesbury, M.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Avebury, L.
Barker, B.
Blyth, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Carlile of Berriew, L.
Carlisle, E.
Dholakia, L. [Teller]
Falkland, V.
Goodhart, L.
Greenway, L.
Grey, E.
Hampton, L.
Hamwee, B.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Hylton, L.
Jacobs, L.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Kinnoull, E.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Lichfield, Bp.
Limerick, E.
McNair, L.
Maddock, B.
Merrivale, L.
Monk Bretton, L.
Newby, L.
Ogmore, L.
Oxford, Bp.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Razzall, L.
Redesdale, L.
Richardson of Calow, B.
Sandwich, E.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Southwark, Bp.
Taverne, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thurso, V.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Williams of Crosby, B. [Teller]


APPENDIX 1

ELIZABETH THE SECOND by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Our other Realms and Territories Queen Head of the Commonwealth Defender of the Faith To all Lords Spiritual and Temporal and all other Our Subjects whatsoever to whom these Presents shall come Greeting Know Ye that We of Our especial grace certain knowledge and mere motion in pursuance of the Life Peerages Act 1958 and of all other powers in that behalf Us enabling do by these Presents advance create and prefer Our right trusty and well beloved Anita Gale to the state degree style dignity title and honour of Baroness Gale of Blaenrhondda in Our County of Mid Glamorgan

And for Us Our heirs and successors do appoint give and grant unto her the said name state degree style dignity title and honour of Baroness Gale to have and to hold unto her for her life

Willing and by these Presents granting for Us Our heirs and successors that she may have hold and possess a seat place and voice in the Parliaments and Public Assemblies and Councils of Us Our heirs and successors within Our United Kingdom amongst the Barons And also that she may enjoy and use all the rights privileges pre-eminences immunities and advantages to the degree of a Baron duly and of right belonging which Barons of Our United Kingdom have heretofore used and enjoyed or as they do at present use and enjoy

In Witness whereof We have caused these Our Letters to be made Patent Witness Ourself at Westminster in the forenoon of the fourth day of August in the forty-eighth year of Our Reign

BY WARRANT UNDER THE QUEEN’S SIGN MANUAL


APPENDIX 2

ELIZABETH THE SECOND by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Our other Realms and Territories Queen Head of the Commonwealth Defender of the Faith To all Lords Spiritual and Temporal and all other Our Subjects whatsoever to whom these Presents shall come Greeting Know Ye that We of Our especial grace certain knowledge and mere motion in pursuance of the Life Peerages Act 1958 and of all other powers in that behalf Us enabling do by these Presents advance create and prefer Our right trusty and well beloved Counsellor William Arthur Waldegrave to the state degree style dignity title and honour of Baron Waldegrave of North Hill of Chewton Mendip in Our County of Somerset

And for Us Our heirs and successors do appoint give and grant unto him the said name state degree style dignity title and honour of Baron Waldegrave of North Hill to have and to hold unto him for his life

Willing and by these Presents granting for Us Our heirs and successors that he may have hold and possess a seat place and voice in the Parliaments and Public Assemblies and Councils of Us Our heirs and successors within Our United Kingdom amongst the Barons And also that he may enjoy and use all the rights privileges pre-eminences immunities and advantages to the degree of a Baron duly and of right belonging which Barons of Our United Kingdom have heretofore used and enjoyed or as they do at present use and enjoy

In Witness whereof We have caused these Our Letters to be made Patent Witness Ourself at Westminster in the afternoon of the twenty-eighth day of July in the forty-eighth year of Our Reign

BY WARRANT UNDER THE QUEEN’S SIGN MANUAL

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APPENDIX 3

FIRST REPORT

from the Committee for Privileges


18 October 1999


Ordered to Report

1. That the Committee have met and have considered the reference of the House of 27 July which was in the following terms: “whether the House of Lords Bill (as amended on Report) would, if enacted, affect the right of those hereditary peers who have answered to their Writ of Summons before the Bill receives Royal Assent to continue to sit and vote throughout the Parliament in which the Bill is enacted.”.

2. That the Committee have heard counsel on behalf of the Lord Mayhew of Twysden and on behalf of Her Majesty’s Government.

3. That it is the unanimous opinion of the Committee that the House of Lords Bill would remove the right to sit and vote from all hereditary peers, who have answered to their Writ of Summons before the Bill receives Royal Assent (save those exempted by virtue of clause 2), from the end of the session in which the Bill is passed. Reasons for this decision will be given later.


Footnote: The Proceedings of the Committee were also published as HL Paper 106–I.