House of Lords Journal 232 (Session 1998-99)


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Thursday 24 June 1999

The House met at two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Addison, V.
Ahmed, L.
Ailesbury, M.
Ailsa, M.
Alexander of Tunis, E.
Allen of Abbeydale, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St. Johns, B.
Annaly, L.
Annan, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Archer of Weston-Super-Mare, L.
Ashbourne, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Bathurst, E.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Beaverbrook, L.
Belhaven and Stenton, L.
Berkeley, L.
Berners, B.
Bethell, L.
Biddulph, L.
Biffen, L.
Birdwood, L.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Blease, L.
Bledisloe, V.
Blyth, L.
Boardman, L.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Brain, L.
Brentford, V.
Bridgeman, V.
Brightman, L.
Brigstocke, B.
Bristol, Bp.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Bruntisfield, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Burns, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butterworth, L.
Caithness, E.
Calverley, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Canterbury, Abp.
Carew, L.
Carnarvon, E.
Carnock, L.
Carrick, E.
Carter, L.
Castle of Blackburn, B.
Chadlington, L.
Chalfont, L.
Chandos, V.
Charteris of Amisfield, L.
Chorley, L.
Christopher, L.
Clancarty, E.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cochrane of Cults, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Colwyn, L.
Cooke of Thorndon, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Craig of Radley, L.
Cranborne, V.
Crathorne, L.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Cross, V.
Cuckney, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Dartmouth, E.
David, B.
Davidson, V.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Denham, L.
Denton of Wakefield, B.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Diamond, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Drogheda, E.
Dundee, E.
Eatwell, L.
Eccles, V.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Elibank, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Ely, Bp.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Ewing of Kirkford, L.
Exmouth, V.
Ezra, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Feldman, L.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Foley, L.
Fookes, B.
Forbes, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freeman, L.
Freyberg, L.
Gainford, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Geraint, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Gladwyn, L.
Glanusk, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.

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Gloucester, Bp.
Goodhart, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Greenway, L.
Greenwood, V.
Grey, E.
Habgood, L.
Hacking, L.
Halsbury, E.
Hamilton of Dalzell, L.
Hampden, V.
Hamwee, B.
Hanningfield, L.
Hanworth, V.
Harding of Petherton, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harmar-Nicholls, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of Peckham, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Hayter, L.
Healey, L.
Hemphill, L.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Holderness, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
HolmPatrick, L.
Hooper, B.
Hothfield, L.
Howe, E.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hylton, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Ilchester, E.
Islwyn, L.
Iveagh, E.
Jakobovits, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeger, B.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Jopling, L.
Kenilworth, L.
Kennet, L.
Kimball, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kinloss, Ly.
Kintore, E.
Knollys, V.
Laming, L.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Lauderdale, E.
Leathers, V.
Leigh, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Lindsey and Abingdon, E.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lloyd of Berwick, L.
Lloyd-George of Dwyfor, E.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Long, V.
Longford, E.
Lovell-Davis, L.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
Luke, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McConnell, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
McNair, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mallalieu, B.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massereene and Ferrard, V.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Merrivale, L.
Mersey, V.
Methuen, L.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Milverton, L.
Mishcon, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monkswell, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Moore of Wolvercote, L.
Moran, L.
Morris, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mountevans, L.
Moyne, L.
Munster, E.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Napier and Ettrick, L.
Napier of Magdâla, L.
Naseby, L.
Newall, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicholson of Winterbourne, B.
Nicol, B.
Noel-Buxton, L.
Norrie, L.
Northbourne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Nunburnholme, L.
O’Neill of Bengarve, B.
O’Cathain, B.
Ogmore, L.
Onslow of Woking, L.
Orme, L.
Oxfuird, V.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patten, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Pender, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Perth, E.
Peston, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pike, B.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Quinton, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rathcavan, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennell, L.
Renton, L.
Renwick, L.
Richard, L.
Rix, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Rowallan, L.
Russell, E.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Saint Albans, D.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Sandberg, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sandys, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Seccombe, B.
Serota, B.
Sewel, L.
Shannon, E.
Shaughnessy, L.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shepherd, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Slim, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.

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Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Stallard, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stodart of Leaston, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strafford, E.
Strange, B.
Strathcarron, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Sudeley, L.
Suffolk and Berkshire, E.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Tanlaw, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Tenby, V.
Teviot, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Swynnerton, L.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Thurlow, L.
Thurso, V.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Waddington, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Walker of Worcester, L.
Walpole, L.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Warner, L.
Warnock, B.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Westbury, L.
Wharton, B.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Windlesham, L.
Winston, L.
Wise, L.
Wynford, L.
Young, B.
Young of Old Scone, B.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Bristol.

Judicial Business

1.Regina v. Oxfordshire County Council and others (Respondents) ex parte Sunningwell Parish Council (Appellants)—The Report from the Appellate Committee was agreed to; it was ordered and adjudged that the Order of the Court of Appeal of 24th November 1997 be set aside; that it be declared that “Sunningwell Glebe is a village green within the meaning of the Commons Registration Act 1965”; that Oxfordshire County Council be directed to amend the commons register accordingly; and that the second respondents do pay to the appellants their costs before Mr Justice McCullough and Mr Justice Buxton, in the Court of Appeal and before this House, the amount of such last-mentioned costs to be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.
2.Piglowska (A.P.) (Appellant) v. Piglowski (A.P.) (Respondent)—The Report from the Appellate Committee was agreed to; it was ordered and adjudged that the Order of the Court of Appeal of 3rd November 1997 be set aside save as to legal aid taxation and that the Order of Judge Pearlman of 25th November 1996 be restored; and that the question of costs be adjourned until further order.
3.Bruton (A.P.) (Appellant) v. London and Quadrant Housing Trust (Respondents)—The Report from the Appellate Committee was agreed to; it was ordered and adjudged that the Order of the Court of Appeal of 31st July 1997 and the Order of Judge James of 28th June 1996 be set aside, save as to legal aid taxation; that it be declared that “the Appellant was a tenant of premises known as 2 Oval House, Rushcroft Road, London SW2 1JU”; that the respondents do pay to the appellant his costs before Judge James, in the Court of Appeal and before this House, the amount of such last-mentioned costs to be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties; and that the costs of the appellant in this House be taxed in accordance with the Legal Aid Act 1988.
4.In re D (Petitioner)—The petition of D praying for leave to appeal was presented without payment of the fee, such fee having been waived by the Appeal Committee pursuant to Standing Order XIII; the said petition was referred to an Appeal Committee.
5.Piglowska (A.P.) (Appellant) v. Piglowski (A.P.) (Respondent)—The respondent’s legal aid certificate was lodged.
6.Appeal Committee—The 43rd Report from the Appeal Committee was agreed to and the following Orders were made:

MCC Proceeds Inc (incorporated under the laws of the state of Delaware as Trustee of The Maxwell Macmillan Realization Liquidating Trust (Respondents) v. Bishopsgate Investment Trust plc and others (Petitioners)—That the petition be referred for hearing.

MCC Proceeds Inc (incorporated under the laws of the state of Delaware as trustee of The Maxwell Macmillan Realization Liquidating Trust) (Petitioners) v. Bishopsgate Investment Trust plc and others (Respondents)—That the petition be referred for hearing.

Companhia Europeia de Transportes Aeros SA (a foreign corporation) (Petitioner) v. British Aerospace Public Limited Company and others (Respondents)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondents be at liberty to apply for their costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d) and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Ratcliff (A.P.) (Petitioner) v. G R McConnell and another (sued on their own behalf and on behalf of all other Governors of Harper Adams College) (Respondents)—That leave to appeal

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be refused; that the costs of the petitioner be taxed in accordance with the Legal Aid Act 1988; and that the respondents be at liberty to apply for their costs in accordance with direction 5.1(c) and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Sanctuary Housing Association (Petitioners) v. Baker (Respondent)—That leave to appeal be refused.

Hamilton (Respondent) v. Al Fayed (Petitioner)—That the respondent be invited to lodge objections by 8th July next.

In re D (Petitioner)—That leave to appeal be refused.

7.Appeal Committee—The 44th Report from the Appeal Committee was agreed to and the following Order was made:

Hurst (Appellant) v. Bryk and others (Respondents)—That the petition of the appellant praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 1st July next be allowed.

The House was adjourned during pleasure.

The House was resumed.

Papers

8.Command Papers—The following papers were presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Prisons—Report for 1st January 1998–31st March 1999 of the Prisons Ombudsman;
 (4369)
2.Cloning—Government response to the Report by the Human Genetics Advisory Commission and the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority on Cloning Issues in Reproduction, Science and Medicine;
 (4387)
3.Judicial Statistics—Judicial Statistics for 1998 for England and Wales.
 (4371)
9.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1. (i)Merchant Shipping (Minimum Standards of Safety Communications) (Amendment) Regulations 1999—(1704)
(ii)Environmental Impact Assessment (Land Drainage Improvement Works) Regulations 1999—(1783)
(iii)Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (Freezing of Funds and Prohibition of Investment) Regulations 1999—(1786)
 laid under the European Communities Act 1972;
2.Food (Peanuts from Egypt) (Emergency Control) Order 1999, laid under the Food Safety Act 1990.
 (1800)
10.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Report for 1998–99 of the Legal Aid Board, laid under the Legal Aid Act 1988;
2.Report and Financial Statement for 1998 of the S4C Authority, laid under the Broadcasting Act 1990;
3.Accounts for 1997–98 of the Audit Commission for Local Authorities and the National Health Service in England and Wales, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Audit Commission Act 1998;
4. (i)Accounts for 1998, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General—
(ii)Report for 1998 by the Chairman—
 of the Crown Agents Holding and Realisation Board, laid under the Crown Agents Act 1979;
5.Accounts for 1998–99 of the Criminal Cases Review Commission, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Criminal Appeal Act 1995;
6.Report and Accounts for 1998–99 of the Commission for Racial Equality for Northern Ireland, laid under the Race Relations (Northern Ireland) Order 1997;
7.Accounts for 1997–98 of the Greenwich Hospital and Travers Foundation, laid under the Greenwich Hospital Act 1865.

Private Business

11.Baxi Partnership Limited Trusts Bill [HL]—The bill was reported from the Unopposed Bill Committee with amendments.

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12.HFC Bank Bill—The bill was read a third time and passed.

Public Business

13.Business of the House—It was moved by the Baroness Jay of Paddington that Standing Order 70 (Affirmative Instruments) be dispensed with to enable the motion to approve the draft Prevention of Terrorism (Temporary Provisions) Act 1989 (Revival of Parts IVA and IVB) Order 1999 to be taken today, notwithstanding that no report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments on the draft Order has been laid before the House; the motion was agreed to.
14.Committee for Privileges—It was moved by the Chairman of Committees that the Viscount Cranborne be appointed a member of the Select Committee in the place of the Viscount Whitelaw; the motion was agreed to.
15.Water Industry Bill—The Queen’s and Prince of Wales’ Consent were signified; the bill was read a third time; an amendment was disagreed to (see division list); then the bill was passed.
16.Welfare Reform and Pensions Bill—The House resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; the House was resumed.
17.Prevention of Terrorism (Temporary Provisions) Act 1989 (Revival of Parts IVA and IVB) Order 1999—Standing Order 70 having been dispensed with, it was moved by the Lord Williams of Mostyn that the draft Order laid before the House on 23rd June be approved; after debate, the motion was agreed to.

The House was adjourned during pleasure.

The House was resumed.

18. Welfare Reform and Pensions Bill—The House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; amendments were agreed to; the House was resumed after clause 10 stood part.

The House was adjourned at nineteen minutes before eleven o’clock
till tomorrow, eleven o’clock.


DIVISION

WATER BILL

It was moved by the Baroness Miller of Hendon, in Clause 6, page 5, line 12, at end to insert:

(“(7A) In any case where—

(a) the premises had been let for residential purposes for a term of six months or more but not for a term exceeding 5 years, whether commencing before or after the commencement of this Act,

(b) the lessee for the time being had given a measured charges notice to the undertaker without the express written consent of the lessor for the time being,

(c) the premises have reverted to the original lessor, whether on the expiry of the term, or upon forfeiture or abandonment or disclaimer or surrender of the lease or by any other means, and

(d) the lessor to whom the premises have reverted intends to occupy them as his principal place of residence, the consumer, (here meaning the lessor for the time being) may within 12 months of the premises reverting to him give a notice to the water undertaker revoking the measured charges notice.”);

which being objected to, the question was put and the House divided:

Contents.............90

Not-Contents.............116

CONTENTS

Ailsa, M.
Alexander of Tunis, E.
Annaly, L.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Berners, B.
Biffen, L.
Blaker, L.
Blyth, L.
Bowness, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Burnham, L. [Teller]
Buscombe, B.
Butterworth, L.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carnock, L.
Chadlington, L.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Cochrane of Cults, L.
Crathorne, L.
Crickhowell, L.
Cuckney, L.
Davidson, V.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Dundee, E.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Foley, L.
Freeman, L.
Gainford, L.
Glentoran, L.
Halsbury, E.

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Hamilton of Dalzell, L.
Hanningfield, L.
Harding of Petherton, L.
Hemphill, L.
Henley, L. [Teller]
Higgins, L.
Hogg, B.
HolmPatrick, L.
Hooper, B.
Iveagh, E.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Knollys, V.
Liverpool, E.
Long, V.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
Luke, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McConnell, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Marlesford, L.
Merrivale, L.
Mersey, V.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Milverton, L.
Mountevans, L.
Moyne, L.
Munster, E.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Napier of Magda„la, L.
Norrie, L.
Northbrook, L.
Nunburnholme, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Onslow of Woking, L.
Pender, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Quinton, L.
Rathcavan, L.
Rees, L.
Renton, L.
Renwick, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Sandys, L.
Seccombe, B.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Slim, V.
Strathcarron, L.
Swinfen, L.
Teviot, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Walker of Worcester, L.
Westbury, L.
Wharton, B.
Windlesham, L.
Young, B.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Allen of Abbeydale, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Amos, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Borrie, L.
Bristol, Bp.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Carter, L. [Teller]
Castle of Blackburn, B.
Charteris of Amisfield, L.
Christopher, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Crawley, B.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
David, B.
Desai, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Ezra, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Fitt, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Glanusk, L.
Goodhart, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Grey, E.
Hacking, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayman, B.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Ilchester, E.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)
Jay of Paddington, B.
(Lord Privy Seal)
Jeger, B.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Kennet, L.
Lovell-Davis, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller]
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Maddock, B.
Mallalieu, B.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Methuen, L.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Mishcon, L.
Molloy, L.
Monkswell, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Nicol, B.
Palmer, L.
Paul, L.
Peston, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Russell, E.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Serota, B.
Sewel, L.
Shepherd, L.
Simon, V.
Stallard, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strafford, E.
Strange, B.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Tenby, V.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tordoff, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Warner, L.
Warnock, B.
Weatherill, L.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Young of Old Scone, B.