House of Lords Journal 232 (Session 1998-99)


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Wednesday 12 May 1999

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Addison, V.
Ahmed, L.
Ailesbury, M.
Ailsa, M.
Aldington, L.
Alexander of Tunis, E.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St. Johns, B.
Annan, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Archer of Weston-Super-Mare, L.
Arran, E.
Ashbourne, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Balfour of Inchrye, L.
Banbury of Southam, L.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Belhaven and Stenton, L.
Bellwin, L.
Berners, B.
Bethell, L.
Biddulph, L.
Biffen, L.
Birdwood, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Blease, L.
Bledisloe, V.
Blyth, L.
Boardman, L.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bragg, L.
Brentford, V.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brightman, L.
Brigstocke, B.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookeborough, V.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Browne-Wilkinson, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Bruntisfield, L.
Burlison, L.
Burns, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butterworth, L.
Byford, B.
Cadman, L.
Caithness, E.
Callaghan of Cardiff, L.
Calverley, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carew, L.
Carlisle, E.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carr of Hadley, L.
Carrick, E.
Carrington, L.
Carter, L.
Chadlington, L.
Chalfont, L.
Chalker of Wallasey, B.
Charteris of Amisfield, L.
Chesham, L.
Chilver, L.
Christopher, L.
Clancarty, E.
Clanwilliam, E.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Coleraine, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Constantine of Stanmore, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Craig of Radley, L.
Crathorne, L.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Cross, V.

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Cumberlege, B.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davidson, V.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
De L’Isle, V.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Denham, L.
Desai, L.
Devonport, V.
Dholakia, L.
Dilhorne, V.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dundonald, E.
Dunleath, L.
Dunrossil, V.
Eatwell, L.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Eden of Winton, L.
Effingham, E.
Elibank, L.
Ellenborough, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Erne, E.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Exmouth, V.
Ezra, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Ferrers, E.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freeman, L.
Freyberg, L.
Gainford, L.
Gainsborough, E.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Geddes, L.
Geraint, L.
Gilbert, L.
Gilmour of Craigmillar, L.
Gisborough, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Glenamara, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gormanston, V.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Gowrie, E.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grantchester, L.
Gray, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Gregson, L.
Grenfell, L.
Grey, E.
Halsbury, E.
Hampton, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hankey, L.
Hardie, L.
Hardinge of Penshurst, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harmar-Nicholls, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of High Cross, L.
Haskel, L.
Haskins, L.
Hastings, L.
Hattersley, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Henley, L.
Holderness, L.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
HolmPatrick, L.
Hooson, L.
Hothfield, L.
Howe, E.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Tanworth, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Hussey of North Bradley, L.
Hylton, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Inglewood, L.
Ironside, L.
Islwyn, L.
Iveagh, E.
Jacobs, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeffreys, L.
Jeger, B.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Jersey, E.
Jopling, L.
Kelvedon, L.
Kenilworth, L.
Kennet, L.
Kenyon, L.
Kimball, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kinloss, Ly.
Kinnoull, E.
Kintore, E.
Kirkhill, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Knollys, V.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Lauderdale, E.
Lawrence, L.
Lawson of Blaby, L.
Layton, L.
Leathers, V.
Leigh, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Levy, L.
Lichfield, Bp.
Lindsay, E.
Listowel, E.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Long, V.
Longford, E.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
Lytton, E.
McAlpine of West Green, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McConnell, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McFarlane of Llandaff, B.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
McNair, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mallalieu, B.
Mar, C.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massereene and Ferrard, V.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Merrivale, L.
Mersey, V.
Methuen, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Milverton, L.
Mishcon, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monkswell, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montrose, D.
Moore of Wolvercote, L.
Morris, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mountevans, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moyne, L.
Moynihan, L.
Munster, E.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Naseby, L.
Nathan, L.
Nelson, E.
Newall, L.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicholson of Winterbourne, B.
Nickson, L.
Noel-Buxton, L.
Norrie, L.
Northbourne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Norton, L.
Norton of Louth, L.
Nunburnholme, L.

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O’Neill of Bengarve, B.
Orme, L.
Oxfuird, V.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patel, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Pender, L.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Quinton, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.
Renton, L.
Renwick, L.
Richard, L.
Richardson, L.
Richardson of Calow, B.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Romney, E.
Rotherwick, L.
Rowallan, L.
Russell, E.
Rutland, D.
Ryder of Warsaw, B.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Saint Albans, D.
St. Davids, V.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Salisbury, Bp.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sawyer, L.
Seccombe, B.
Sefton of Garston, L.
Selborne, E.
Selsdon, L.
Sempill, L.
Sewel, L.
Shannon, E.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shaughnessy, L.
Shepherd, L.
Sheppard of Liverpool, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Shrewsbury, E.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Slim, V.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Southwark, Bp.
Stallard, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stodart of Leaston, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Strathcarron, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Strathcona and Mt. Royal, L.
Sudeley, L.
Swansea, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Tenby, V.
Teviot, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trenchard, V.
Trumpington, B.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Ullswater, V.
Varley, L.
Vinson, L.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wakefield, Bp.
Wakeham, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Wallace of Coslany, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walpole, L.
Warnock, B.
Waterford, M.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Westbury, L.
Wharton, B.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Willoughby de Broke, L.
Winchilsea and Nottingham, E.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Young, B.
Younger of Leckie, V.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Southwark.

1.Duke of Rutland—David Charles Robert Duke of Rutland sat first in Parliament after the death of his father, Charles John Robert Duke of Rutland, having first taken and subscribed the oath pursuant to statute.

Judicial Business

2.Regina v. Antoine (Petitioner)—The petition of Pierre Harrison Antoine praying for leave to appeal in accordance with the Criminal Appeal Act 1968 was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee.
3.In re Kern (Petitioner) (application for a writ of Habeas Corpus)—The petition of Eugene Richard Kern praying for leave to appeal in accordance with the Administration of Justice Act 1960 was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee.
4.Canada Trust Company (Acting in its capacity as Trustee of the Chrysler Canada Ltd’s Benefits Plan, the Chrysler Canada Ltd Master Trust Fund, The Chrysler Canada Ltd Non-Canadian Master Trust Fund and the Holmes Foundry Division Master Trust Fund) and others (Respondents) v. Stolzenberg and Gambazzi and others (Appellants) and others—The petition of the appellants praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 26th May next (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed.
5.Regina v. Secretary of State for the Home Department (Respondent) ex parte Ahmed (A.P.) (Petitioner)—The petitioner’s legal aid certificate was lodged.
6.Regina v. Secretary of State for the Home Department (Respondent) ex parte Sosanya (A.P.) (Petitioner)—The petitioner’s legal aid certificate was lodged.

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7.Appeal Committee—The following Orders were made pursuant to the 28th Report:

Phelps (A.P.) (Petitioner) v. Mayor etc of the London Borough of Hillingdon (Respondents)—That leave to appeal be given, and that the petition of appeal be lodged by 26th May next.

Xydhias (Petitioner) v. Xydhias (A.P.) (Respondent)—That leave to appeal be given, and that the petition of appeal be lodged by 26th May next.

8.Appeal Committee—The 31st Report was made; the Appeal Committee reported that they had met and had heard Counsel; the Report was agreed to and the following Order was made:

Three Rivers District Council and others (Original Appellants and Cross-Respondents) v. Governor and Company of the Bank of England (Original Respondents and Cross-Appellants)—That leave to appeal be given, and that the petition of appeal be lodged by 26th May next.

9.Appeal Committee—The 32nd Report from the Appeal Committee was agreed to and the following Orders were made:

Regina v. Secretary of State for the Home Department (Respondent) ex parte Patel (A.P.) (Petitioner)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the costs of the petitioner be taxed in accordance with the Legal Aid Act 1988; and that the respondent be at liberty to apply for his costs in accordance with direction 5.1(c) and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Regina v. Secretary of State for the Home Department (Respondent) ex parte Ibitola (A.P.) (Petitioner)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the costs of the petitioner be taxed in accordance with the Legal Aid Act 1988; and that the respondent be at liberty to apply for his costs in accordance with direction 5.1(c) and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Regina v. Secretary of State for the Home Department (Respondent) ex parte Ahmed (A.P.) (Petitioner)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the costs of the petitioner be taxed in accordance with the Legal Aid Act 1988; and that the respondent be at liberty to apply for his costs in accordance with direction 5.1(c) and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Regina v. Secretary of State for the Home Department (Respondent) ex parte Olusanya (A.P.) (Petitioner)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the costs of the petitioner be taxed in accordance with the Legal Aid Act 1988; and that the respondent be at liberty to apply for his costs in accordance with direction 5.1(c) and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Regina v. Secretary of State for the Home Department (Respondent) ex parte Coward (A.P.) (Petitioner)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the costs of the petitioner be taxed in accordance with the Legal Aid Act 1988; and that the respondent be at liberty to apply for his costs in accordance with direction 5.1(c) and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Regina v. Secretary of State for the Home Department (Respondent) ex parte Ghous (A.P.) (Petitioner)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the costs of the petitioner be taxed in accordance with the Legal Aid Act 1988; and that the respondent be at liberty to apply for his costs in accordance with direction 5.1(c) and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Regina v. Secretary of State for the Home Department (Respondent) ex parte Sosanya (A.P.) (Petitioner)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the costs of the petitioner be taxed in accordance with the Legal Aid Act 1988; and that the respondent be at liberty to apply for his costs in accordance with direction 5.1(c) and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Link Organisation plc (Petitioners) v. North Derbyshire Tertiary College and others (Respondents)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondents be at liberty to apply for their costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d) and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Joyce (Respondent) v. Morrissey (Petitioner) and others—That leave to appeal be refused.

Morgan and others (Respondents) v. Morris (A.P.) (Petitioner) and one other action—That leave to appeal be refused; that the costs of the petitioner be taxed in accordance with the Legal Aid Act 1988; and that the respondents be at liberty to apply for their costs in accordance with direction 5.1(c) and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

White (A.P.) (Petitioner) v. White and the Motor Insurers Bureau (Respondents)—That the petition be referred for hearing.

Roberts (A.P.) (Respondent) v. Winbow (Petitioner)—That leave to appeal be refused; and that the respondent be at liberty to apply for her costs in accordance with direction 5.1(b), and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties, and that the costs of the respondent be taxed in accordance with the Legal Aid Act 1988.

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Papers

10.Command Papers—The following papers were presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:

Geneva Conventions—Protocols Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12th August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of:

(i)International Armed Conflicts (Protocol I);(4338)
(ii)Non–International Armed Conflicts (Protocol II).(4339)
11.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Scotland Act 1998 (General Transitory, Transitional and Savings Provisions) Amendment Order 1999, laid under the Scotland Act 1998;
 (1334)
2.Magistrates’ Courts (Children and Young Persons) (Amendment) Rules 1999, laid under the Magistrates’ Courts Act 1980.
 (1343)
12.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Accounts for 1997–98 relating to issues from the National Loans Fund, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under various Acts;
2.Statement by the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport concerning the appointments of Dr Jessica Rawson CBE and Henry Boyd-Carpenter CVO to the Board of the British Library, laid under the British Library Act 1972.

Private Business

13.Imperial College Bill—The bill was read a second time and committed to an Unopposed Bill Committee.

Public Business

14.Business of the House—It was moved by the Baroness Jay of Paddington that the debate on the motion in the name of the Lord Hayhoe set down for today shall be limited to 2 hours and that in the name of the Lord Vinson to 3 hours; the motion was agreed to.
15.Referendums (2-hour debate)—It was moved by the Lord Hayhoe that there be laid before the House papers relating to the case for establishing an independent statutory commission responsible for the conduct of referendums, their organisation and administration; after debate, the motion was (by leave of the House) withdrawn.
16.Small firms (3-hour debate)—It was moved by the Lord Vinson that there be laid before the House papers relating to the regulations that affect the job creating potential of small firms; after debate, the motion was (by leave of the House) withdrawn.
17.Local Government Bill—The bill was reported from a Grand Committee with amendments; it was ordered that the bill be printed as amended. (HL Bill 58)
18.Road Traffic Regulation (Cycle Parking) Bill [HL]—The order of commitment was discharged.
19.Human rights—The Lord Lester of Herne Hill asked Her Majesty’s Government whether they will reconsider their refusal to make available the international remedies for breaches by the United Kingdom of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (1996), the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (1984) and the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (1966); after debate, the question was answered by the Lord Williams of Mostyn.

The House was adjourned at twenty-eight minutes past eight o’clock
till tomorrow, three o’clock.

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APPENDIX

PROCEEDINGS OF THE GRAND COMMITTEE (IN THE MOSES ROOM) ON THE
LOCAL GOVERNMENT BILL

The Committee met at half-past three o’clock.

The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Lyell) was in the Chair.

Amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; amendments were agreed
to; it was ordered that the bill be reported with amendments.

The Committee was adjourned at nineteen minutes past six o’clock.