House of Lords Journal 232 (Session 1998-99)


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Tuesday 27 April 1999

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Addison, V.
Ahmed, L.
Ailesbury, M.
Ailsa, M.
Alanbrooke, V.
Alderdice, L.
Aldington, L.
Alexander of Tunis, E.
Alexander of Weedon, L.
Allen of Abbeydale, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amherst of Hackney, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St. Johns, B.
Annaly, L.
Annan, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Archer of Weston-Super-Mare, L.
Arran, E.
Ashbourne, L.
Ashburton, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Balfour of Inchrye, L.
Banbury of Southam, L.
Barnard, L.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Bath, M.
Bathurst, E.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Beaverbrook, L.
Belhaven and Stenton, L.
Bellwin, L.
Berkeley, L.
Berners, B.
Bethell, L.
Biddulph, L.
Biffen, L.
Birdwood, L.
Blackburn, Bp.
Blackstone, B.
Blackwell, L.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Blease, L.
Bledisloe, V.
Blyth, L.
Boardman, L.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bragg, L.
Bramall, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Brightman, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookeborough, V.
Brookman, L.

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Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Browne-Wilkinson, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butler of Brockwell, L.
Butterworth, L.
Byford, B.
Cadman, L.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carew, L.
Carlisle, E.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carnock, L.
Carrick, E.
Carter, L.
Castle of Blackburn, B.
Chadlington, L.
Chandos, V.
Chelmsford, V.
Chesham, L.
Chichester, Bp.
Christopher, L.
Clancarty, E.
Clanwilliam, E.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clifford of Chudleigh, L.
Clinton, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Clitheroe, L.
Cobbold, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Coleraine, L.
Coleridge, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Congleton, L.
Constantine of Stanmore, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Cork and Orrery, E.
Courtown, E.
Cowdrey of Tonbridge, L.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Cranborne, V.
Crathorne, L.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Cross, V.
Cuckney, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Dacre of Glanton, L.
Dahrendorf, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
Dartmouth, E.
David, B.
Davidson, V.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
De Freyne, L.
De L’Isle, V.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Deedes, L.
Denbigh, E.
Denham, L.
Denman, L.
Denton of Wakefield, B.
Derwent, L.
Desai, L.
Devonport, V.
Dholakia, L.
Diamond, L.
Digby, L.
Dilhorne, V.
Dinevor, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Downshire, M.
Drogheda, E.
Dubs, L.
Dudley, E.
Dundee, E.
Dunleath, L.
Eccles, V.
Eden of Winton, L.
Effingham, E.
Ellenborough, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Exmouth, V.
Ezra, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Ferrers, E.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Forbes, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freyberg, L.
Gage, V.
Gainford, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Geddes, L.
Geraint, L.
Gibson, L.
Gilbert, L.
Gisborough, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Gladwyn, L.
Glanusk, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Gormanston, V.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grantchester, L.
Gray, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greenway, L.
Gregson, L.
Grenfell, L.
Grey, E.
Griffiths, L.
Hacking, L.
Haddington, E.
Haig, E.
Halsbury, E.
Hamilton of Dalzell, L.
Hampton, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanworth, V.
Hardie, L.
Harding of Petherton, L.
Harlech, L.
Harmar-Nicholls, L.
Harmsworth, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of High Cross, L.
Haskel, L.
Hattersley, L.
Hayman, B.
Hayter, L.
Hemphill, L.
Henley, L.
Hesketh, L.
Higgins, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Holderness, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
HolmPatrick, L.
Hood, V.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Hothfield, L.
Howe, E.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hussey of North Bradley, L.
Hutchinson of Lullington, L.
Hylton, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Inchcape, E.
Inchyra, L.
Inglewood, L.
Ironside, L.
Islwyn, L.
Iveagh, E.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jauncey of Tullichettle, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeffreys, L.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Kelvedon, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kennet, L.
Kenyon, L.
Keyes, L.
Kingsdown, L.

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Kinloss, Ly.
Kinnoull, E.
Kintore, E.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Knollys, V.
Knutsford, V.
Laing of Dunphail, L.
Laming, L.
Lane, L.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Lauderdale, E.
Lawrence, L.
Leathers, V.
Leigh, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Levy, L.
Lincoln, Bp.
Lindsay, E.
Lindsey and Abingdon, E.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Liverpool, E.
Lloyd-George of Dwyfor, E.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Long, V.
Longford, E.
Lovell-Davis, L.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
Macclesfield, E.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
Macfarlane of Bearsden, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackay of Drumadoon, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
Macleod of Borve, B.
McNair, L.
Macpherson of Drumochter, L.
Malmesbury, E.
Mancroft, L.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlborough, D.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massereene and Ferrard, V.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Merrivale, L.
Mersey, V.
Middleton, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Milverton, L.
Mishcon, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monk Bretton, L.
Monkswell, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montague of Oxford, L.
Montgomery of Alamein, V.
Montrose, D.
Moore of Wolvercote, L.
Moran, L.
Morris, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mountevans, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moyne, L.
Moynihan, L.
Munster, E.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Napier and Ettrick, L.
Napier of Magdâla, L.
Naseby, L.
Nathan, L.
Nelson, E.
Newall, L.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicholson of Winterbourne, B.
Nickson, L.
Nicol, B.
Noel-Buxton, L.
Norrie, L.
Northbourne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Northfield, L.
Norton, L.
Norton of Louth, L.
Nunburnholme, L.
Ogmore, L.
Oliver of Aylmerton, L.
Onslow, E.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Orme, L.
Oxford, Bp.
Oxfuird, V.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patel, L.
Patten, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Pender, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Perry of Walton, L.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Porter of Luddenham, L.
Prior, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Pym, L.
Quinton, L.
Quirk, L.
Radnor, E.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rathcavan, L.
Rawlinson of Ewell, L.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Reading, M.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Renton of Mount Harry, L.
Renwick, L.
Renwick of Clifton, L.
Richard, L.
Richardson of Calow, B.
Ridley, V.
Rochester, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogers of Riverside, L.
Roll of Ipsden, L.
Romney, E.
Rotherwick, L.
Rowallan, L.
Runciman of Doxford, V.
Russell, E.
Ryder of Warsaw, B.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Saatchi, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Saint Albans, D.
St. Davids, V.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandberg, L.
Sandford, L.
Sandwich, E.
Savile, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Seccombe, B.
Sefton of Garston, L.
Serota, B.
Shannon, E.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sharples, B.
Shaughnessy, L.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shepherd, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Simon of Highbury, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Southwark, Bp.
Stallard, L.
Stanley of Alderley, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stockton, E.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strafford, E.
Strathcarron, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Suffield, L.
Swansea, L.
Swinfen, L.

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Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Tanlaw, L.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Tebbit, L.
Temple of Stowe, E.
Tenby, V.
Teviot, L.
Teynham, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Macclesfield, L.
Thomas of Swynnerton, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Thurlow, L.
Tomlinson, L.
Tordoff, L.
Torrington, V.
Trefgarne, L.
Trenchard, V.
Trumpington, B.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Ullswater, V.
Vinson, L.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakefield, Bp.
Wakeham, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Warnock, B.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Weir, V.
Westbury, L.
Whaddon, L.
Wharton, B.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Wilcox, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Wilson of Tillyorn, L.
Winchilsea and Nottingham, E.
Windlesham, L.
Winston, L.
Wise, L.
Woolton, E.
Young, B.
Young of Old Scone, B.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Blackburn.

1.Oath—Richard Charles Uryan Lord Dinevor took and subscribed the oath pursuant to statute.

Judicial Business

2.Three Rivers District Council and others (Original Appellants and Cross-Respondents) v. Governor and Company of the Bank of England (Original Respondents and Cross-Appellants) (England)—The cross-appeal of the Governor and Company of the Bank of England was presented and it was ordered that in accordance with Standing Order VI the statement and appendix thereto be lodged on or before 8th June next.
3.Berkeley (Appellant) v. Secretary of State for the Environment and others (Respondents)—The appeal was set down for hearing and referred to an Appellate Committee (lodged 26th April).
4.Reynolds (Respondent) v. Times Newspapers Limited and others (Appellants)—The petition of the appellants praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 4th May next (the agents for the respondent consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed.

Papers

5.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Countryside Stewardship (Amendment) Regulations 1999, laid under the European Communities Act 1972;
 (1177)
2.Lay Representatives (Rights of Audience) Order 1999, laid under the Courts and Legal Services Act 1990;
 (1225)
3. (i)Draft Code of Practice on Rights of Access: Goods, Facilities, Services and Premises—(—)
(ii)Draft Code of Practice on Duties of Trade Organisations to their disabled members and applicants—(—)
(iii)Disability Discrimination (Services and Premises) Regulations 1999—(1191)
  laid under the Disability Discrimination Act 1995.
6.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.4th Report for 1998–99 of the Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration on the Ostrich Farming Corporation Ltd, laid under the Parliamentary Commissioner Act 1967;
2.Report for 1995–98 of the Wallace Collection, laid under the Museums and Galleries Act 1992.

Select Committee Reports

7.Statutory Instruments—The following Reports from the Joint Committee were made and ordered to be printed:

16th Report on certain statutory instruments, including the following affirmative instruments:

Draft European Communities (Definition of Treaties) (Framework Agreement for Trade and Cooperation between the European Community and its Member States and the Republic of Korea) Order 1999;

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 Draft Social Security Commissioners (Procedure) Regulations 1999;
 Draft Alterations to the Criminal Injuries Compensation Scheme; (HL Paper 56)

First Special Report: Departmental returns on instruments reported to Parliament, 1998. (HL Paper 57)

8. Financial Services and Markets—The First Report from the Joint Committee was made; it was ordered that the Report be printed, together with the minutes of proceedings and minutes of evidence. (HL Paper 50–I and II)

Private Business

9.Imperial College Bill—The Examiners certificate that no further standing order is applicable was ordered to lie on the Table.
10.HFC Bank Bill—The bill was brought from the Commons, read a first time and referred to the Examiners.

Public Business

11.House of Lords Bill—The House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; an amendment was negatived; the House was resumed.
12.European Parliamentary Elections (Northern Ireland) (Amendment) Regulations 1999—It was moved by the Lord Dubs that the draft Regulations laid before the House on 13th April be approved; after debate, the motion was agreed to.

The House was adjourned during pleasure.
The House was resumed.

13.House of Lords Bill—The House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; amendments were disagreed to (see division lists 1 and 2); the House was resumed after amendment 23.
14.Financial Services and Markets—A message was brought from the Commons that they have made the following order, to which they desire the concurrence of this House: That it be an Instruction to the Joint Committee on Financial Services and Markets that it report by 27th May 1999 on Parts V (employment in regulated activities), VI (civil fines for market abuse) and XII (disciplinary measures) of the draft bill in relation to the European Convention on Human Rights.

The House was adjourned at nineteen minutes past one o’clock
in the morning of Wednesday 28th April
till later the same day, half-past two o’clock in the afternoon.


DIVISIONS

Division No. 1

HOUSE OF LORDS BILL

It was moved by the Earl Ferrers, in Clause 1, page 1, line 5, to leave out (“shall be”) and insert (“who is”); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the Committee divided:

Contents.............41

Not-Contents.............82

CONTENTS

Alanbrooke, V.
Annaly, L.
Belhaven and Stenton, L.
Berners, B.
Caithness, E.
Clanwilliam, E.
Clifford of Chudleigh, L.
Clinton, L.
Coleraine, L.
Cross, V.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Dundee, E.
Dunleath, L.
Eden of Winton, L. [Teller]
Effingham, E.
Ellenborough, L.
Erroll, E.
Ferrers, E. [Teller]
Gray, L.
Hamilton of Dalzell, L.
Hemphill, L.
Hooper, B.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Liverpool, E.
Longford, E.
Lyell, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Monson, L.
Montrose, D.
Napier and Ettrick, L.
Norrie, L.
Northbrook, L.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Stockton, E.
Torrington, V.
Trefgarne, L.
Trenchard, V.
Wise, L.

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NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Alli, L.
Amos, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Bach, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Berkeley, L.
Blackstone, B.
Bragg, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Burlison, L.
Carlisle, E.
Carter, L. [Teller]
Chandos, V.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Crawley, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Desai, L.
Dixon, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dubs, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Gilbert, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Hacking, L.
Hardie, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayman, B.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Islwyn, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
(Lord Privy Seal)
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller]
Mackie of Benshie, L.
McNair, L.
Monkswell, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Newby, L.
Nicholson of Winterbourne, B.
Nicol, B.
Patel, L.
Peston, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Rea, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Richard, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Sawyer, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Highbury, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Thomas of Macclesfield, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tordoff, L.
Whitty, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Young of Old Scone, B.

Division No. 2

HOUSE OF LORDS BILL

It was moved by the Earl Ferrers, in Clause 1, page 1, line 5, to leave out second (“a”) and insert (“an”); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the Committee divided:

Contents.............31

Not-Contents.............63

CONTENTS

Anelay of St. Johns, B.
Annaly, L.
Berners, B.
Blatch, B.
Burnham, L.
Byford, B.
Chesham, L.
Clanwilliam, E.
Clinton, L.
Coleraine, L.
Coleridge, L.
Eden of Winton, L.
Ferrers, E. [Teller]
Gray, L.
Hamilton of Dalzell, L.
Henley, L.
Holmpatrick, L.
Iveagh, E.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
Mancroft, L.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Monson, L.
Mountevans, L.
Norrie, L.
Northesk, E.
Norton of Louth, L.
Stockton, E.
Trefgarne, L. [Teller]
Trenchard, V.
Weir, V.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Alli, L.
Amos, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Bach, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Blackstone, B.
Bragg, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Burlison, L.
Carlisle, E.
Carter, L. [Teller]
Chandos, V.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Crawley, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Desai, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dubs, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Hacking, L.
Hardie, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Hayman, B.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
(Lord Privy Seal)
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.

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Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller]
McNair, L.
Monkswell, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Newby, L.
Nicol, B.
Pitkeathley, B.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Richard, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Sawyer, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Highbury, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Thomas of Macclesfield, L.
Thornton, B.
Whitty, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Young of Old Scone, B.