House of Lords Journal 232 (Session 1998-99)


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Page 185

1998-99

Volume 232      

Thursday 25 February 1999

The House met at three o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Addison, V.
Ahmed, L.
Ailesbury, M.
Ailsa, M.
Alderdice, L.
Aldington, L.
Alexander of Tunis, E.
Allen of Abbeydale, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St. Johns, B.
Annaly, L.
Annan, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Archer of Weston-Super-Mare, L.
Arran, E.
Ashbourne, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Astor, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Belhaven and Stenton, L.
Beloff, L.
Berkeley, L.
Berners, B.
Bethell, L.
Biddulph, L.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Blease, L.
Blyth, L.
Boardman, L.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradford, Bp.
Bramall, L.
Brentford, V.
Bridgeman, V.
Brightman, L.
Brigstocke, B.
Broadbridge, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookeborough, V.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Bruntisfield, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Burns, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butterworth, L.
Cadman, L.
Caithness, E.
Calverley, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carew, L.
Carlisle, E.
Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carnock, L.
Carrick, E.
Carter, L.
Chadlington, L.
Chalfont, L.
Chalker of Wallasey, B.
Chandos, V.
Charteris of Amisfield, L.
Chesham, L.
Christopher, L.
Clancarty, E.
Clanwilliam, E.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Courtown, E.
Cowdrey of Tonbridge, L.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Cranborne, V.
Crathorne, L.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Cross, V.
Cuckney, L.
Cullen of Ashbourne, L.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Dacre of Glanton, L.
Dahrendorf, L.
David, B.
Davidson, V.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
De Freyne, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Denbigh, E.
Denham, L.
Denton of Wakefield, B.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dilhorne, V.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Dundee, E.
Dunleath, L.
Eatwell, L.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elis-Thomas, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Emerton, B.
Erne, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Exmouth, V.
Ezra, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Foley, L.
Fookes, B.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Gainford, L.
Gainsborough, E.
Gallacher, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Geddes, L.
Geraint, L.
Gilbert, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Gladwyn, L.
Glanusk, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gormanston, V.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Gowrie, E.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Greenway, L.
Greenwood, V.
Grenfell, L.
Grey, E.
Grimston of Westbury, L.
Hacking, L.
Haddington, E.
Halsbury, E.
Hamilton of Dalzell, L.

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Hankey, L.
Hanningfield, L.
Hanworth, V.
Hardie, L.
Harding of Petherton, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harmar-Nicholls, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Hayter, L.
Hemphill, L.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hoffmann, L.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Holderness, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
HolmPatrick, L.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Hothfield, L.
Howe, E.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Tanworth, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hussey of North Bradley, L.
Hylton, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Ilchester, E.
Inglewood, L.
Iveagh, E.
Jacobs, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeffreys, L.
Jeger, B.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Johnston of Rockport, L.
Judd, L.
Kenilworth, L.
Kennet, L.
Kimball, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kinloss, Ly.
Kinnoull, E.
Kintore, E.
Kirkhill, L.
Laming, L.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Lauderdale, E.
Lawrence, L.
Layton, L.
Leigh, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Listowel, E.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Long, V.
Longford, E.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
Ludford, B.
Lyell, L.
McCarthy, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McConnell, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McFarlane of Llandaff, B.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackay of Clashfern, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Macleod of Borve, B.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mallalieu, B.
Manchester, D.
Manchester, Bp.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massereene and Ferrard, V.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merrivale, L.
Mersey, V.
Methuen, L.
Middleton, L.
Mills, V.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Milverton, L.
Mishcon, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monkswell, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montague of Oxford, L.
Montgomery of Alamein, V.
Moore of Wolvercote, L.
Moran, L.
Morris, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mountevans, L.
Moyne, L.
Moynihan, L.
Munster, E.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Napier and Ettrick, L.
Naseby, L.
Neill of Bladen, L.
Nelson, E.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Noel-Buxton, L.
Norrie, L.
Northbourne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Norton, L.
Nunburnholme, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Ogmore, L.
Onslow, E.
Oxfuird, V.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Parry, L.
Patten, L.
Pender, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Perry of Walton, L.
Peston, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Porter of Luddenham, L.
Prior, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Quirk, L.
Radnor, E.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rankeillour, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.
Rennell, L.
Renton, L.
Renwick, L.
Richard, L.
Ripon, Bp.
Rix, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogers of Riverside, L.
Roll of Ipsden, L.
Romney, E.
Rotherwick, L.
Rowallan, L.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Saint Albans, D.
St. Davids, V.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Sandberg, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Selsdon, L.
Sempill, L.
Shannon, E.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shepherd, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Slim, V.

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Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Southwark, Bp.
Stafford, L.
Stallard, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Strathcarron, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Sudeley, L.
Swansea, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Temple of Stowe, E.
Tenby, V.
Teviot, L.
Teynham, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Macclesfield, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thornton, B.
Thurlow, L.
Thurso, V.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Torrington, V.
Trefgarne, L.
Trenchard, V.
Trumpington, B.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Ullswater, V.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Walker of Worcester, L.
Wallace of Coslany, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walpole, L.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Warner, L.
Warnock, B.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Weidenfeld, L.
Westbury, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Wilcox, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Winchilsea and Nottingham, E.
Wise, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Wynford, L.
Young, B.
Young of Old Scone, B.
Zouche of Haryngworth, L.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Ripon.

1.Royal Assent—The Lord Chancellor notified the Queen’s Assent to the following Act:
Social Security Contributions (Transfer of Functions, etc.) Actc. 2

Judicial Business

2.Roberts (A.P.) (Respondent) v. Winbow (Petitioner)—The respondent’s legal aid certificate was lodged.

Papers

3.Instrument withdrawn—The following instrument, laid before the House on 22nd February, was withdrawn:

Draft Scottish Parliament (Elections etc.) Order 1999.

4.Command Papers—The following papers were presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Monopolies and Mergers Commission—IMS Health Inc and Pharmaceutical Marketing Services Inc: report on the merger situation;
 (4261)
2.Elections—Return of the expenses of each candidate at the May 1997 general election;
 (—)
3.Finance—Public Income and Expenditure for 1997–98 for Northern Ireland.
 (4255)
5.Affirmative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Consequential Modifications) (No. 1) Order 1999;
2.Draft Scottish Parliament (Elections etc.) Order 1999;
3.Draft International Mobile Satellite Organisation (Immunities and Privileges) Order 1999.
6.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1. (i)Local Elections (Parishes and Communities) (Amendment) Rules 1999—(395)
(ii)Local Elections (Principal Areas) (Amendment) Rules 1999—(394)
 laid under the Representation of the People Act 1983;
2.Motor Cars (Driving Instruction) (Admission of Community Licence Holders) Regulations 1999, laid under the Road Traffic Act 1988;
 (357)
3.Electricity (Non-Fossil Fuel Sources) (Scotland) Order 1999, laid under the Electricity Act 1989.
 (439)

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7.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Accounts for 1997–98 of the Home Grown Sugar Beet (Research and Education) Fund, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Food Act 1984;
2.Report of the Scottish Law Commission on unjustified enrichment, error of law and public authority receipts and disbursements, laid under the Law Commissions Act 1965;
3.Statements of Guarantee given by the Secretary of State for Health on loans proposed to be raised by the following NHS Trusts:
(i)Community Health Care Services (North Derbyshire)—
(ii)Southampton Community Health Services—
(iii)Rotherham General Hospitals—
(iv)Pilgrim Health—
(v)Leicester General Hospital—
(vi)Central Nottinghamshire Healthcare—
(vii)Glenfield Hospital—
 laid under the National Health Service and Community Care Act 1990;
4.Accounts for 1997–98 of the Wallace Collection, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Museums and Galleries Act 1992;
5.Treasury Minute dated 25th February 1999 on the application of certain receipts as appropriations in aid of the votes specified in the Spring supplementary estimates for 1998–99, laid under the Public Accounts and Charges Act 1891.

Private Business

8.Baxi Partnership Limited Trusts Bill [HL]—The Examiner’s certificate that the further Standing Orders had been complied with was ordered to lie on the Table and the bill was committed to an Unopposed Bill Committee.

Public Business

9.Rating (Valuation) Bill—A bill to make provision about valuation for purposes of non-domestic rates in England and Wales was brought from the Commons, read a first time and ordered to be printed. (HL Bill 27)
10.Rating (Valuation) Bill—It was ordered that the Explanatory Notes relating to the bill be printed. (HL Bill 27–EN)
11.Financial Services and Markets—It was moved by the Lord Carter, on behalf of the Baroness Jay of Paddington, that this House do concur with the Commons in their message of 23rd February, that it is expedient that a Joint Committee of Lords and Commons be appointed to report on the consultative document on the draft financial services and markets bill presented by Her Majesty’s Command on 21st December 1998 and any further draft of the bill which may be laid upon the Table of both Houses by a Minister of the Crown and to report by 30th April 1999; the motion was agreed to and a message was ordered to be sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.
12.Health Bill [HL]—The House resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; an amendment was disagreed to (see division list); amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; the House was resumed after amendment 70.

The House was adjourned at midnight
to Monday next, half-past two o’clock.


DIVISION

HEALTH BILL [HL]

It was moved by the Earl Howe, in Clause 1, page 1, line 10, at end to insert (“from 31st March 2000”); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the Committee divided:

Contents.............72

Not-Contents.............137

CONTENTS

Aberdare, L.
Annaly, L.
Astor of Hever, L.
Berners, B.
Bethell, L.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Boardman, L.
Broadbridge, L.
Burnham, L. [Teller]
Butterworth, L.
Cadman, L.

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Caithness, E.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Chadlington, L.
Clanwilliam, E.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Cullen of Ashbourne, L.
Dacre of Glanton, L.
Davidson, V.
De Freyne, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dundee, E.
Elles, B.
Erne, E.
Foley, L.
Fookes, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Glanusk, L.
Haddington, E.
Harding of Petherton, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hemphill, L.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Howe, E.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Kinnoull, E.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Leigh, L.
Long, V.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
Lyell, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
Mancroft, L.
Merrivale, L.
Milverton, L.
Monson, L.
Morris, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Naseby, L.
Noel-Buxton, L.
Norrie, L.
Nunburnholme, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Reay, L.
Rees, L.
Renton, L.
Renwick, L.
Rowallan, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Sudeley, L.
Swinfen, L.
Teviot, L.
Wise, L.
Wynford, L.
Young, B.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Alderdice, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Ampthill, L.
Annan, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Berkeley, L.
Blyth, L.
Borrie, L.
Brightman, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Calverley, L.
Carlisle, E.
Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L.
Carter, L. [Teller]
Charteris of Amisfield, L.
Christopher, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Craigavon, V.
Crawley, B.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
David, B.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Dunleath, L.
Eatwell, L.
Elis-Thomas, L.
Emerton, B.
Evans of Watford, L.
Ezra, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Gainsborough, E.
Gallacher, L.
Geraint, L.
Gilbert, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Goudie, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grenfell, L.
Hacking, L.
Hardie, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayman, B.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hylton, L.
Ilchester, E.
Irvine of Lairg, (Lord Chancellor)
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Judd, L.
Kennet, L.
Kintore, E.
Kirkhill, L.
Laming, L.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Lockwood, B.
Longford, E.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McFarlane of Llandaff, B.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller]
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Methuen, L.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Molloy, L.
Monkswell, L.
Montague of Oxford, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Peston, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Rea, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rix, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogers of Riverside, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shepherd, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Simon, V.
Stallard, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Tenby, V.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Macclesfield, L.
Thornton, B.
Thurso, V.
Tordoff, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Wallace of Coslany, L.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Warner, L.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Wigoder, L.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Young of Old Scone, B.