House of Lords Journal 232 (Session 1998-99)


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Tuesday 16 February 1999

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Addison, V.
Ahmed, L.
Ailesbury, M.
Ailsa, M.
Alanbrooke, V.
Aldington, L.
Alexander of Tunis, E.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St. Johns, B.
Annaly, L.
Annan, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Archer of Weston-Super-Mare, L.
Ashbourne, L.
Ashburton, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Astor, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attenborough, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Banbury of Southam, L.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Bath and Wells, Bp.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Belhaven and Stenton, L.
Beloff, L.
Belstead, L.
Berkeley, L.
Berners, B.
Biddulph, L.
Biffen, L.
Birdwood, L.
Blackburn, Bp.
Blackwell, L.
Blatch, B.
Blease, L.
Blyth, L.
Boardman, L.
Borrie, L.

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Boston of Faversham, L.
Bragg, L.
Bramall, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brightman, L.
Brigstocke, B.
Broadbridge, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookeborough, V.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Bruntisfield, L.
Buckinghamshire, E.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Burns, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butler of Brockwell, L.
Butterfield, L.
Butterworth, L.
Cadman, L.
Caithness, E.
Callaghan of Cardiff, L.
Calverley, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carew, L.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carnarvon, E.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carnock, L.
Carrick, E.
Carter, L.
Castle of Blackburn, B.
Chalfont, L.
Chandos, V.
Charteris of Amisfield, L.
Chesham, L.
Chorley, L.
Christopher, L.
Clancarty, E.
Clanwilliam, E.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Cooke of Islandreagh, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cowdrey of Tonbridge, L.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Craigmyle, L.
Cranborne, V.
Cranbrook, E.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Crook, L.
Cross, V.
Cuckney, L.
Cullen of Ashbourne, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Dahrendorf, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
Dartmouth, E.
David, B.
Davidson, V.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
De Freyne, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dearing, L.
Denbigh, E.
Derwent, L.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dilhorne, V.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donegall, M.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Downshire, M.
Drogheda, E.
Dubs, L.
Dundee, E.
Dundonald, E.
Eatwell, L.
Effingham, E.
Elibank, L.
Ellenborough, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Ely, Bp.
Erne, E.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Exmouth, V.
Ezra, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Falkland, V.
Fanshawe of Richmond, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Feversham, L.
Fisher of Rednal, B.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freeman, L.
Freyberg, L.
Gainford, L.
Gallacher, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Geddes, L.
Geraint, L.
Gilbert, L.
Gisborough, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Glanusk, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Gray, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greenway, L.
Gregson, L.
Grenfell, L.
Grey, E.
Grimston of Westbury, L.
Hacking, L.
Halsbury, E.
Hampden, V.
Hampton, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hankey, L.
Hanworth, V.
Hardie, L.
Harding of Petherton, L.
Hardinge of Penshurst, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harmar-Nicholls, L.
Harmsworth, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of High Cross, L.
Harris of Peckham, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Hemphill, L.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Holderness, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
HolmPatrick, L.
Hood, V.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Hothfield, L.
Howe, E.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hutchinson of Lullington, L.
Hylton, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Inglewood, L.
Ironside, L.
Islwyn, L.
Iveagh, E.
Jacobs, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeger, B.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Jopling, L.
Judd, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kinloss, Ly.
Kinnoull, E.
Kintore, E.
Kirkhill, L.
Knollys, V.
Laming, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lane of Horsell, L.

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Lang of Monkton, L.
Lauderdale, E.
Lawrence, L.
Lawson of Blaby, L.
Leathers, V.
Leigh, L.
Levy, L.
Lindsay, E.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Long, V.
Longford, E.
Lovell-Davis, L.
Lucas, L.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
Ludford, B.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
Macclesfield, E.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
Mackintosh of Halifax, V.
Macleod of Borve, B.
McNair, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mallalieu, B.
Mar, C.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massereene and Ferrard, V.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Merrivale, L.
Mersey, V.
Meston, L.
Middleton, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Milverton, L.
Mishcon, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monkswell, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montague of Oxford, L.
Moran, L.
Morris, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mountevans, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moyne, L.
Moynihan, L.
Munster, E.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Napier and Ettrick, L.
Napier of Magdâla, L.
Naseby, L.
Nathan, L.
Nelson, E.
Newall, L.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Noel-Buxton, L.
Norrie, L.
Northbourne, L.
Northesk, E.
Norton, L.
Norton of Louth, L.
Nunburnholme, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Oliver of Aylmerton, L.
Onslow, E.
Onslow of Woking, L.
Orme, L.
Oxford, Bp.
Oxfuird, V.
Palmer, L.
Patten, L.
Paul, L.
Peel, E.
Pender, L.
Perry of Walton, L.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plumb, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rankeillour, L.
Rathcavan, L.
Rawlings, B.
Rawlinson of Ewell, L.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Reading, M.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.
Renton, L.
Renwick, L.
Richard, L.
Ripon, Bp.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rochester, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Roll of Ipsden, L.
Rowallan, L.
Russell, E.
Ryder of Warsaw, B.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
St. Davids, V.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Sandford, L.
Sandwich, E.
Savile, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Seccombe, B.
Sefton of Garston, L.
Selborne, E.
Serota, B.
Sewel, L.
Shannon, E.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shaughnessy, L.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shepherd, L.
Sheppard of Liverpool, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Simon of Highbury, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Spens, L.
Stafford, L.
Stair, E.
Stallard, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strafford, E.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L.
Sudeley, L.
Swansea, L.
Swinfen, L.
Swinton, E.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Gryfe, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Teviot, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Macclesfield, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thornton, B.
Thurlow, L.
Thurso, V.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Torrington, V.
Trefgarne, L.
Trenchard, V.
Trumpington, B.
Tugendhat, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Tweeddale, M.
Uddin, B.
Ullswater, V.
Varley, L.
Vinson, L.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.

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Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walpole, L.
Warner, L.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Weir, V.
Westbury, L.
Wharton, B.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Wilcox, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Winchester, Bp.
Winchilsea and Nottingham, E.
Windlesham, L.
Wise, L.
Woolf, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Wynford, L.
Young, B.
Young of Old Scone, B.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Blackburn.

Judicial Business

1.Scarborough Building Society (Respondents) v. Howes Percival (a firm) (Petitioners)—Upon application by the petitioners (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto), it was ordered that the petition be withdrawn on the terms agreed between the parties and on condition that the petitioners do pay to the respondents any costs incurred in respect of the petition for leave to appeal to this House, such costs to be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.
2.Appeal Committee—The following Order was made pursuant to the 3rd Report:

Reynolds (Respondent) v. Times Newspapers Limited and others (Petitioners)—That leave to appeal be given be given on condition that the petitioners do pay the respondent’s costs in any event and that the petition of appeal be lodged by 2nd March next.

3.Appeal Committee—The following Order was made pursuant to the 4th Report:

Docker and others (A.P.) (Petitioners) v. Chief Constable of the West Midlands Police (Respondent)—That leave to appeal be given, and that the petition of appeal be lodged by 2nd March next.

4.Appeal Committee—The 20th Report from the Appeal Committee was agreed to and the following Order was made:

Society of Lloyd’s (Petitioners and Original Respondents) v. Robinson (Original Appellant and Cross-Respondent) and another—That leave to cross-appeal be given on condition that the cross-appellants do pay the costs of such cross-appeal.

5.Society of Lloyd’s (Cross-Appellants and Original Respondents) v. Robinson (Original Appellant and Cross-Respondent) and another (England)—The cross-appeal of the Society of Lloyds was presented and was referred to an Appellate Committee.

Papers

6.Command Paper—The following paper was presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:

Special Hospitals—Volume 2 of the Report of the Committee of Inquiry into the Personality Disorder Unit, Ashworth Special Hospital: Expert Evidence on Personality Disorder.

(4195)

7.Affirmative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Draft National Assembly for Wales (Transfer of Functions) Order 1999;
2.Draft Scottish Parliament (Disqualification) Order 1999;
3.Draft Scottish Parliament (First Ordinary General Election and First Meeting) Order 1999;
4.Draft Scottish Parliament (Elections etc.) Order 1999;
5.Draft National Minimum Wage Act 1998 (Amendment) Regulations 1999;
6.Draft National Minimum Wage Regulations 1999.
8.Paper not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following paper was laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:

Report by the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry on Regulations Implementing the National Minimum Wage, laid under the National Minimum Wage Act 1998.

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Select Committee Report

9.Statutory Instruments—The 9th Report from the Joint Committee was made on certain statutory instruments, including the following affirmative instruments:

Draft European Communities (Definition of Treaties) (Euro-Mediterranean Agreement establishing an Association between the European Communities and their Member States and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan) Order 1999;

Draft National Assembly for Wales (Disqualification) Order 1999;

Draft National Assembly for Wales (Representation of the People) Order 1999;

it was ordered that the Report be printed. (HL Paper 28)

Public Business

10.Access to Justice Bill [HL]—The bill was further considered on report; an amendment was agreed to (see division list); further amendments were agreed to; amendments were moved and (by leave of the House) withdrawn; further consideration on report was adjourned.
11.Northern Ireland Arms Decommissioning Act 1997 (Amnesty Period) Order 1999—It was moved by the Lord Dubs that the draft Order laid before the House on 1st February be approved; after debate, the motion was agreed to.

The House was adjourned during pleasure.

The House was resumed.

12.Access to Justice Bill [HL]—The bill was further considered on report; amendments were agreed to; amendments were moved and (by leave of the House) withdrawn; it was ordered that the bill be printed as amended. (HL Bill 21)

The House was adjourned at twenty-nine minutes before midnight

till tomorrow, half-past two o’clock.


DIVISION

ACCESS TO JUSTICE BILL [HL]

It was moved by the Lord Thomas of Gresford, in Clause 13, page 9, line 27, to leave out from beginning to (“or”); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided:

Contents.............189

Not-Contents.............134

CONTENTS

Ackner, L.
Addington, L.
Addison, V.
Ailsa, M.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Anelay of St. Johns, B.
Annaly, L.
Astor, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Belhaven and Stenton, L.
Beloff, L.
Belstead, L.
Berners, B.
Biddulph, L.
Blackburn, Bp.
Blatch, B.
Boardman, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brightman, L.
Broadbridge, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruntisfield, L.
Burnham, L.
Buscombe, L.
Butterfield, L.
Butterworth, L.
Caithness, E.
Calverley, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Carew, L.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Charteris of Amisfield, L.
Chesham, L.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Craig of Radley, L.
Cranborne, V.
Crickhowell, L.
Cross, V.
Cumberlege, B.
Dahrendorf, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
Davidson, V.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Denbigh, E.
Dholakia, L.
Dilhorne, V.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donegall, M.
Dundee, E.
Elibank, L.
Ellenborough, L.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Erne, E.
Ezra, L.
Falkland, V.
Gainford, L.
Garel-Jones, L.
Geddes, L.
Geraint, L.
Gisborough, L.
Glanusk, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gray, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Grimston of Westbury, L.
Harding of Petherton, L.
Harmar-Nicholls, L.
Harmsworth, L.

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Harris of Greenwich, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Henley, L. [Teller]
Higgins, L.
Holderness, L.
HolmPatrick, L.
Hooson, L.
Hothfield, L.
Howe, E.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hutchinson of Lullington, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Inglewood, L.
Jacobs, L.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jopling, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kintore, E.
Knollys, V.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Lawrence, L.
Leigh, L.
Liverpool, E.
Long, V.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
Macclesfield, E.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Macleod of Borve, B.
McNair, L.
Maddock, B.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Merrivale, L.
Middleton, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Milverton, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Mountevans, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moyne, L.
Moynihan, L.
Munster, E.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Napier and Ettrick, L.
Newall, L.
Newby, L.
Noel-Buxton, L.
Northesk, E.
Norton of Louth, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Onslow of Woking, L.
Oxfuird, V.
Palmer, L.
Peel, E.
Pender, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Rankeillour, L.
Rathcavan, L.
Rawlinson of Ewell, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.
Renton, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Russell, E.
St. Davids, V.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Sandford, L.
Sandwich, E.
Savile, L.
Seccombe, B.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Stair, E.
Strathclyde, L.
Sudeley, L.
Swansea, L.
Swinfen, L.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L. [Teller]
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomson of Walliswood, B.
Thurso, V.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Torrington, V.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Tugendhat, L.
Vinson, L.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Walpole, L.
Weatherill, L.
Weir, V.
Wigoder, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Wilcox, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Winchilsea and Nottingham, E.
Wise, L.
Wynford, L.
Young, B.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Ahmed, L.
Ailesbury, M.
Alli, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Attenborough, L.
Bach, L.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Berkeley, L.
Blease, L.
Borrie, L.
Bragg, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Bruce of Donnington, L.
Burlison, L.
Callaghan of Cardiff, L.
Carnarvon, E.
Carter, L. [Teller]
Castle of Blackburn, B.
Christopher, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Crawley, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Desai, L.
Dixon, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Eatwell, L.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Fitt, L.
Gilbert, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Gregson, L.
Grenfell, L.
Hacking, L.
Hanworth, V.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayman, B.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)
Islwyn, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
(Lord Privy Seal)
Jeger, B.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Judd, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Levy, L.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Longford, E.
Lovell-Davis, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller]
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Molloy, L.
Monkswell, L.
Montague of Oxford, L.

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Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Nunburnholme, L.
Orme, L.
Paul, L.
Peston, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rea, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
Sewel, L.
Sefton of Garston, L.
Serota, B.
Sewel, L.
Shannon, E.
Shaughnessy, L.
Shepherd, L.
Sheppard of Liverpool, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Highbury, L.
Stallard, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strafford, E.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Gryfe, L.
Thomas of Macclesfield, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Varley, L.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitty, L.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.