House of Lords Journal 232 (Session 1998-99)


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Wednesday 16 December 1998

The House met at a quarter-before two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Addington, L.
Addison, V.
Ahmed, L.
Ailesbury, M.
Ailsa, M.
Aldington, L.
Alexander of Tunis, E.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St. Johns, B.
Annaly, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Archer of Weston-Super-Mare, L.
Arran, E.
Ashbourne, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Astor, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Barber, L.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Belhaven and Stenton, L.
Beloff, L.
Belstead, L.
Berkeley, L.
Berners, B.
Biddulph, L.
Biffen, L.
Birdwood, L.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Bledisloe, V.
Blyth, L.
Boardman, L.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Bragg, L.
Braine of Wheatley, L.
Braybrooke, L.
Brentford, V.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brigstocke, B.
Broadbridge, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Bruntisfield, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Burns, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butler of Brockwell, L.
Butterworth, L.
Byford, B.
Cadman, L.
Caithness, E.
Callaghan of Cardiff, L.
Calverley, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Canterbury, Abp.
Carew, L.
Carlisle, E.
Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L.
Carnarvon, E.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carr of Hadley, L.
Carrick, E.
Carrington, L.
Carter, L.
Chalfont, L.
Chapple, L.
Charteris of Amisfield, L.
Chesham, L.
Chorley, L.
Christopher, L.
Clancarty, E.
Clanwilliam, E.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Coleraine, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Constantine of Stanmore, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cowdrey of Tonbridge, L.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Craigmyle, L.
Cranbrook, E.
Crathorne, L.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Cross, V.
Cuckney, L.
Cullen of Ashbourne, L.
Dacre of Glanton, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davidson, V.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Beswick, L.

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Denbigh, E.
Denham, L.
Denton of Wakefield, B.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dilhorne, V.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Downshire, M.
Dudley, E.
Dunrossil, V.
Eatwell, L.
Effingham, E.
Elis-Thomas, L.
Ellenborough, L.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Ely, Bp.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Exmouth, V.
Ezra, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Ferrers, E.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Forester, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freyberg, L.
Gainford, L.
Gainsborough, E.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Geddes, L.
Geraint, L.
Gilbert, L.
Gillmore of Thamesfield, L.
Gilmour of Craigmillar, L.
Gisborough, L.
Glanusk, L.
Glasgow, E.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goodhart, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Gowrie, E.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grantchester, L.
Greenway, L.
Gregson, L.
Grenfell, L.
Grey, E.
Hacking, L.
Halsbury, E.
Hampton, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hankey, L.
Hanningfield, L.
Hanworth, V.
Harding of Petherton, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harlech, L.
Harmar-Nicholls, L.
Harmsworth, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of High Cross, L.
Haskel, L.
Haslam, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hemphill, L.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hobhouse of Woodborough, L.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Holderness, L.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
HolmPatrick, L.
Home, E.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Howe, E.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Huntingdon, E.
Hylton, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Ilchester, E.
Inglewood, L.
Ironside, L.
Islwyn, L.
Jakobovits, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jeffreys, L.
Jeger, B.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Jopling, L.
Kimball, L.
King of Wartnaby, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kinloss, Ly.
Kinnoull, E.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Knollys, V.
Laming, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Lauderdale, E.
Lawrence, L.
Lawson of Blaby, L.
Layton, L.
Leathers, V.
Leigh, L.
Lindsay, E.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lloyd-George of Dwyfor, E.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Longford, E.
Lovell-Davis, L.
Lucas, L.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
Ludford, B.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McAlpine of West Green, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackay of Clashfern, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massereene and Ferrard, V.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Mersey, V.
Meston, L.
Methuen, L.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monkswell, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montgomery of Alamein, V.
Moore of Wolvercote, L.
Moran, L.
Morris, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mountevans, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moyne, L.
Moynihan, L.
Munster, E.
Napier and Ettrick, L.
Naseby, L.
Nathan, L.
Nelson, E.
Nelson of Stafford, L.
Newall, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicholson of Winterbourne, B.
Nicol, B.
Noel-Buxton, L.
Norrie, L.
Northbourne, L.
Norton, L.
Norton of Louth, L.
Nunburnholme, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Ogmore, L.
Oxford, Bp.
Oxfuird, V.
Palmer, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Peel, E.
Pender, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Perry of Walton, L.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.

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Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Porter of Luddenham, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Quinton, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rathcavan, L.
Rawlings, B.
Rawlinson of Ewell, L.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Renton, L.
Renwick, L.
Richard, L.
Ridley, V.
Ripon, Bp.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rochester, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Rowallan, L.
Runcie, L.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
St. Davids, V.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sanderson of Bowden, L.
Sandwich, E.
Savile, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Seccombe, B.
Sefton of Garston, L.
Selborne, E.
Selkirk of Douglas, L.
Selsdon, L.
Sempill, L.
Shannon, E.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shepherd, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Simon of Highbury, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Slim, V.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Stallard, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stockton, E.
Stodart of Leaston, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strafford, E.
Strathcarron, L.
Sudeley, L.
Swansea, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Teviot, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Macclesfield, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Thurlow, L.
Thurso, V.
Tomlinson, L.
Torrington, V.
Trumpington, B.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Ullswater, V.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wakeham, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Walker of Worcester, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Warner, L.
Warnock, B.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Westbury, L.
Whaddon, L.
Wharton, B.
Whitty, L.
Wigram, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Wilcox, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Winchilsea and Nottingham, E.
Wise, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Wynford, L.
Young, B.
Young of Old Scone, B.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Ely.

Judicial Business

1.Trustees of the Nell Gwynn House Maintenance Fund (Respondents) v. Commissioners of Customs and Excise (Appellants)—The Report from the Appellate Committee was agreed to; it was ordered and adjudged that the Order of the Court of Appeal of 21st December 1995 be set aside and that the Order of Mr Justice Popplewell of 18th October 1994 be restored save as to costs; and that the respondents do pay to the appellants their costs before this House, the amount of such costs to be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.
2.Jameson and another (Respondents) v. Central Electricity Generating Board (Appellants) and others—The Report from the Appellate Committee was agreed to; it was ordered and adjudged that the Order of the Court of Appeal of 13th February 1997 and the Order of Sir Haydn Tudor Evans of 31st March 1995 be set aside; that the respondents do pay to the appellants their costs in the Courts below and in this House, the amount of such last-mentioned costs to be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties; and that, in relation to the Third Party proceedings, all issues relating thereto, including the costs thereof, be remitted back to the Court of Appeal.
3.Baltic Insurance Group (Appellants) v. Jordan Grand Prix Limited and others and Quay Financial Software Limited and others (Respondents) (by counter claim) and one other action—The Report from the Appellate Committee was agreed to; it was ordered and adjudged that the Order of the Court of Appeal of 24th October 1997 be affirmed and the appeal dismissed with costs, the amount thereof to be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.
4.Lace Co-Ordinates Limited (Petitioners) v. NEM Insurance Company Limited (Respondents)—The petition of Lace Co-ordinates Limited praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee.

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5.Commissioners of Customs and Excise (Appellants) v. British Telecommunications Plc (Respondents)—The appeal was set down for hearing and referred to an Appellate Committee.

The House was adjourned during pleasure.

The House was resumed.

Papers

6.Command Papers—The following papers were presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Shipping—Agreement concerning Specific Stability Requirements for Ro-Ro Passenger Ships undertaking Regular Scheduled International Voyages between or to or from Designated Ports in North West Europe and the Baltic Sea;
 (4180)
Investment Protection—Agreement between the United Kingdom and the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region for the Promotion and Protection of Investments, together with an explanatory memorandum;
 (4173)
2.Competitiveness—Our Competitive Future: Building the Knowledge Driven Economy: Government proposals.
 (4176)
7.Affirmative Instrument—The following instrument was laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table:

Draft Legal Aid (Prescribed Panels) Regulations 1998.

8.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1. (i)Local Government Act 1988 (Defined Activities) (Exemptions) (Hastings and Luton Borough Councils) Order 1998—(3114)
(ii)Local Government Act 1988 (Defined Activities) (Exemption) (Poole Borough Council) Order 1998—(3053)
 laid under the Local Government Act 1988;
2.Chemicals (Hazard Information and Packaging for Supply) (Amendment) Regulations 1998, laid under the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974;
 (3106)
3.Local Authorities (Goods and Services) (Public Bodies) (No. 6) Order 1998, laid under the Local Authorities (Goods and Services) Act 1970;
 (3095)
4.Excise Duty Point (External and Internal Community Transit Procedure) (Amendment) Regulations 1998, laid under the Customs and Excise Management Act 1979;
 (3110)
5. (i)Statute made by St. Hugh’s College, Oxford on 15th June 1998—(—)
(ii)Statute made by Corpus Christi College, Oxford on 19th May 1998—(—)
(iii)Two Statutes made by the University of Cambridge on 1st April 1998—(—)
(iv)Revised Statutes made by Emmanuel College, Cambridge on 13th May 1998—(—)
 laid under the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge Act 1923;
6. (i)Education (Determining School Admission Arrangements for the Initial Year) Regulations 1998—(3165)
(ii)School Standards and Framework Act 1998 (Admissions) (Modifications No. 2) Regulations 1998—(3130)
 laid under the School Standards and Framework Act 1998.
9.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Statement of Guarantee given by the Secretary of State for Health in respect of temporary borrowing by Queen Mary’s Sidcup National Health Service Trust from National Westminster Bank PLC, laid under the National Health Service and Community Care Act 1990;
2. (i)Reports and Accounts for 1997–98 of—
(a)Forest Research—
(b)Forest Enterprise—
(c)The Forestry Commission—
(ii)Accounts for 1997–98 of the Forestry Fund, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General;
 laid under the Forestry Act 1967;
3.Accounts for 1997–98 of the Scottish Children’s Reporter Administration, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Local Government etc. (Scotland) Act 1994;

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4.Accounts for 1997–98 of the Scottish Office Development Department Non-Domestic Rating, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Local Government Finance Act 1992;
5.Accounts for 1997–98 of—
(i)The Particle Physics and Astronomy Research Council (PPARC)—
(ii)The Medical Research Council—
 together with the Reports of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Science and Technology Act 1965;
6.Treasury Indemnity to the Bank of England concerning international settlements in respect of a loan to Brazil, laid under the International Monetary Arrangements Act 1983;
7.Statements by the Treasury in respect of—
(i)Black Sea and Baltic General Insurance Company Limited—
(ii)BAI (Run-Off) Limited—
 laid under the Policyholders Protection Act 1975;
8.Qualifying Revenue and Multiplex Revenue: Statement by the Independent Television Commission of Principles and Administrative Arrangements, laid under the Broadcasting Act 1990.

Select Committee Reports

10.Delegated Powers and Deregulation—The following reports from the Select Committee were made and ordered to be printed:

3rd Report, on the following Bills:

 Pollution Prevention and Control Bill [HL];
 Youth Justice and Criminal Evidence Bill [HL];
 Disability Rights Commission Bill [HL];
 Trustee Delegation Bill [HL];
 Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Bill [HL]; (HL Paper 12)

4th Report, on the Draft Deregulation (Weights and Measures) Order 1999. (HL Paper 13)

Public Business

11.Consolidated Fund Bill—A bill to apply certain sums out of the Consolidated Fund to the service of the years ending on 31st March 1999 and 2000 was brought from the Commons endorsed with the certificate of the Speaker that the bill is a money bill and read a first time.
12.Business of the House—It was moved by the Lord Carter, on behalf of the Baroness Jay of Paddington, that if the Consolidated Fund Bill is brought from the Commons, Standing Order 44 (No two stages of a bill to be taken on one day) be dispensed with tomorrow to allow the bill to be taken through its remaining stages; the motion was agreed to.
13.Parliamentary Office of Science and Technology (POST)—It was moved by the Chairman of Committees that, as proposed by the Committee of Selection, the following Lords be appointed to serve as members of the Board of the Parliamentary Office of Science and Technology (POST):
L. Flowers
B. Nicol
L. Winston;

the motion was agreed to.

14. Parliamentary Broadcasting Unit Limited (PARBUL)—It was moved by the Chairman of Committees that, as proposed by the Committee of Selection, the following Lords be named as members of the Parliamentary Broadcasting Unit Limited (PARBUL):
L. Boston of Faversham
L. Burnham
L. Morris of Castle Morris
L. Thomson of Monifieth;

the motion was agreed to.

15.Sierra Leone (Short debate)—It was moved by the Lord Chesham that there be laid before the House papers relating to the relations between the United Kingdom and Sierra Leone; after debate, the motion was (by leave of the House) withdrawn.

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16.Fluoride in water (Short debate)—It was moved by the Earl Baldwin of Bewdley that there be laid before the House papers relating to the case for a scientifically defensible review of the available evidence as part of a public enquiry into all aspects of fluoridating the water supply; after debate, the motion was (by leave of the House) withdrawn.
17.Food prices—The Lord Rowallan asked Her Majesty’s Government what is their view of the disparity between farm-gate and supermarket prices for food products, and what steps they intend to take to redress this imbalance; after debate, the question was answered by the Lord Hoyle.

The House was adjourned at twenty-nine minutes before ten o’clock
till tomorrow, half-past ten o’clock for judicial business,
eleven o’clock for public business.