House of Lords Journal 232 (Session 1998-99)


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Wednesday 9 December 1998

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Addington, L.
Addison, V.
Ahmed, L.
Ailesbury, M.
Ailsa, M.
Alanbrooke, V.
Aldington, L.
Alexander of Tunis, E.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St. Johns, B.
Annaly, L.
Annan, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Archer of Weston-Super-Mare, L.
Arran, E.
Ashbourne, L.
Ashburton, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Astor, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Balfour of Inchrye, L.
Banbury of Southam, L.
Barnard, L.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Bathurst, E.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Beaverbrook, L.
Belhaven and Stenton, L.
Beloff, L.
Berkeley, L.
Berners, B.
Bethell, L.
Biddulph, L.
Biffen, L.
Birdwood, L.
Birmingham, Bp.
Blackstone, B.
Blackwell, L.
Blatch, B.
Blease, L.
Bledisloe, V.
Blyth, L.
Boardman, L.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bragg, L.
Braine of Wheatley, L.
Brentford, V.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brightman, L.
Broadbridge, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookeborough, V.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Bruntisfield, L.
Burlison, L.
Burns, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butler of Brockwell, L.
Butterworth, L.
Byford, B.
Cadman, L.
Caithness, E.
Callaghan of Cardiff, L.
Calverley, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carew, L.
Carlisle, E.
Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carr of Hadley, L.
Carrick, E.
Carter, L.
Carver, L.
Chadlington, L.
Chapple, L.
Charteris of Amisfield, L.
Chesham, L.
Chichester, Bp.
Christopher, L.
Clancarty, E.
Clanwilliam, E.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clifford of Chudleigh, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Clwyd, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Congleton, L.
Constantine of Stanmore, L.
Cooke of Islandreagh, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cowdrey of Tonbridge, L.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Craigmyle, L.
Cranborne, V.

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Crathorne, L.
Crawley, B.
Crawshaw, L.
Crickhowell, L.
Croham, L.
Cross, V.
Cuckney, L.
Cullen of Ashbourne, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
Dartmouth, E.
David, B.
Davidson, V.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Beswick, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Dearing, L.
Denbigh, E.
Denham, L.
Denton of Wakefield, B.
Desai, L.
Devonport, V.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donaldson of Lymington, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Drogheda, E.
Dundonald, E.
Durham, Bp.
Eatwell, L.
Elibank, L.
Ellenborough, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Ely, Bp.
Emerton, B.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Ewing of Kirkford, L.
Exmouth, V.
Falkland, V.
Falmouth, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Ferrers, E.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freeman, L.
Freyberg, L.
Gage, V.
Gainford, L.
Gainsborough, E.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Geddes, L.
Geraint, L.
Gibson, L.
Gillmore of Thamesfield, L.
Gilmour of Craigmillar, L.
Gisborough, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Glanusk, L.
Glenamara, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Gormanston, V.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Gregson, L.
Grey, E.
Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Grimston of Westbury, L.
Hacking, L.
Haddington, E.
Halsbury, E.
Hampden, V.
Hampton, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanningfield, L.
Hanworth, V.
Harding of Petherton, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harmar-Nicholls, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of High Cross, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Healey, L.
Hemphill, L.
Henley, L.
Hereford, Bp.
Higgins, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Holderness, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
HolmPatrick, L.
Hooper, B.
Hothfield, L.
Howe, E.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Tanworth, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hussey of North Bradley, L.
Hylton, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Ilchester, E.
Inchyra, L.
Inge, L.
Inglewood, L.
Ironside, L.
Islwyn, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Johnston of Rockport, L.
Jopling, L.
Judd, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kennet, L.
Kenyon, L.
Kilbracken, L.
Kimball, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kinloss, Ly.
Kinnoull, E.
Kintore, E.
Kirkhill, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Knollys, V.
Knutsford, V.
Laming, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Lauderdale, E.
Lawrence, L.
Lawson of Blaby, L.
Layton, L.
Leathers, V.
Leigh, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Levy, L.
Lindsay, E.
Lindsey and Abingdon, E.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lloyd-George of Dwyfor, E.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Long, V.
Longford, E.
Lovell-Davis, L.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McCluskey, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McFarlane of Llandaff, B.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackay of Drumadoon, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
Macleod of Borve, B.
McNair, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mallalieu, B.
Manchester, Bp.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massereene and Ferrard, V.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Merrivale, L.
Mersey, V.
Methuen, L.
Middleton, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Milverton, L.
Mishcon, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monk Bretton, L.
Monkswell, L.

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Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montague of Oxford, L.
Montgomery of Alamein, V.
Moore of Wolvercote, L.
Morris, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mottistone, L.
Mountevans, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moyne, L.
Moynihan, L.
Munster, E.
Napier and Ettrick, L.
Naseby, L.
Nelson, E.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicholson of Winterbourne, B.
Nicol, B.
Noel-Buxton, L.
Norrie, L.
Northbourne, L.
Northesk, E.
Norton, L.
Norton of Louth, L.
Nunburnholme, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Oliver of Aylmerton, L.
Onslow, E.
Onslow of Woking, L.
Oxfuird, V.
Palmer, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Peel, E.
Pender, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Perry of Walton, L.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plumb, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Quinton, L.
Quirk, L.
Radnor, E.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rankeillour, L.
Rathcavan, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.
Rennell, L.
Renton, L.
Renton of Mount Harry, L.
Renwick, L.
Richard, L.
Ridley, V.
Rix, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rochester, L.
Rosslyn, E.
Rotherwick, L.
Rowallan, L.
Russell, E.
Russell-Johnston, L.
Ryder of Warsaw, B.
Saint Albans, D.
St. Davids, V.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandford, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Seccombe, B.
Sefton of Garston, L.
Selborne, E.
Selkirk of Douglas, L.
Sewel, L.
Shannon, E.
Sharples, B.
Shaughnessy, L.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shepherd, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Slim, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Somerleyton, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Spens, L.
Stallard, L.
Stanley of Alderley, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Sterling of Plaistow, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stockton, E.
Stodart of Leaston, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strafford, E.
Strange, B.
Strathcarron, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Strathcona and Mt. Royal, L.
Sudeley, L.
Swansea, L.
Swinfen, L.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Gryfe, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Tebbit, L.
Tenby, V.
Teviot, L.
Teynham, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Thurlow, L.
Thurso, V.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Torrington, V.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Ullswater, V.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walpole, L.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Warnock, B.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Westbury, L.
Whaddon, L.
Wharton, B.
Wilberforce, L.
Wilcox, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Winchester, Bp.
Winchilsea and Nottingham, E.
Windlesham, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Wynford, L.
Young, B.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Birmingham.

Judicial Business

1.Mahomed (Respondent) v. Bank of Baroda (Petitioners)—The petition of the Bank of Baroda praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee.
2.Burridge (Respondent) v. London Borough of Harrow (Appellants) and others—The petition of the appellants praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 21st January next (the agents for the respondent consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed.

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3.Appeal Committee—The 5th Report from the Appeal Committee was agreed to and the following Orders were made:

Regina v. Collins and Pathfinder Mental Health Services NHS Trust and others (Petitioners) ex parte S (Respondent)—That the respondent be invited to lodge objections by 23rd December next.

St George’s Healthcare NHS Trust (Petitioners) v. S (Respondent)—That the respondent be invited to lodge objections by 23rd December next.

White (Petitioner) v. White (Respondent)—That the petition be referred for hearing.

White (Petitioner) v. White (Respondent) (Second petition)—That the petition be referred for hearing.

Sarsfield (H M Inspector of Taxes) (Respondent) v. Dixons Group Distribution Limited (Petitioners)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondent be at liberty to apply for his costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d) and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Sarsfield (H M Inspector of Taxes) (Respondent) v. Dixons Group Distribution Limited (No. 2) (Petitioners)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondent be at liberty to apply for his costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d) and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Sarsfield (H M Inspector of Taxes) (Respondent) v. Dixons Limited (now Dixons Stores Group Limited) (Petitioners)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondent be at liberty to apply for his costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d) and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Sarsfield (H M Inspector of Taxes) (Respondent) v. Dixons Limited (now Dixons Stores Group Limited) (No 2) (Petitioners)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondent be at liberty to apply for his costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d) and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Sarsfield (H M Inspector of Taxes) (Respondent) v. Dixons Group plc (Petitioners)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondent be at liberty to apply for his costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d) and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Sarsfield (H M Inspector of Taxes) (Respondent) v. Dixons Group plc (No. 2) (Petitioners)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondent be at liberty to apply for his costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d) and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Sarsfield (H M Inspector of Taxes) (Respondent) v. Dixons Photographic Investments Limited (now Dixons Investments Limited) (Petitioners)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondent be at liberty to apply for his costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d) and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Sarsfield (H M Inspector of Taxes) (Respondent) v. Dixons Photographic Investments Limited (now Dixons Investments Limited) (No 2) (Petitioners)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondent be at liberty to apply for his costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d) and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Barclays Bank plc (Petitioners) v. Dean and others (Respondents) and two other actions—That the petition be referred for hearing.

Regina v. Broadmoor Special Hospital Authority and another (Respondents) ex parte S and another (Petitioners) and another—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondents be at liberty to apply for their costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d) and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Regina v. West Dorset District Council (Respondents) ex parte Searle (Petitioner)—That the respondents be invited to lodge objections by 23rd December next.

Papers

4.Command Paper—The following paper was presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:

Air Services—Agreement between the United Kingdom and Croatia concerning Air Services.

(4163)

5.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:

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1.Local Authorities (Goods and Services) (Public Bodies) (No. 5) Order 1998, laid under the Local Authorities (Goods and Services) Act 1970;
 (2956)
2.Local Government Act 1988 (Defined Activities) (Exemption) (Lichfield District Council) Order 1998, laid under the Local Government Act 1988;
 (2955)
3. (i)Crown Court (Modification) Rules 1998—(3047)
(ii)Crime and Disorder Act 1998 (Dismissal of Charges Sent) Rules 1998—(3048)
(iii)Rules of the Supreme Court (Amendment No. 2) 1998—(3049)
 laid under the Supreme Court Act 1981;
4.Magistrates’ Courts (Modification) Rules 1998, laid under the Magistrates’ Courts Act 1980;
 (3046)
5.General Teaching Council for Wales Order 1998, laid under the Teaching and Higher Education Act 1998;
 (2911)
6. (i)Public Telecommunication System Designation (Data Marine Systems Limited) Order 1998—(3002)
(ii)Public Telecommunication System Designation (Internet Network Services Limited) Order 1998—(3011)
(iii)Public Telecommunication System Designation (MLL Telecom Limited) Order 1998—(3012)
(iv)Public Telecommunication System Designation (International Computers Limited) Order 1998—(3013)
(v)Public Telecommunication System Designation (Qwest Communications International Limited) Order 1998—(3014)
(vi)Public Telecommunication System Designation (Witley Communications Limited) Order 1998—(3015)
(vii)Public Telecommunication System Designation (Teleport London International Limited) Order 1998—(3010)
(viii)Public Telecommunication System Designation (Viatel UK Limited) Order 1998—(3009)
(ix)Public Telecommunication System Designation (NorSea Com A/S) Order 1998—(3019)
(x)Public Telecommunication System Designation (The JNT Association) Order 1998—(3018)
(xi)Public Telecommunication System Designation (EGN BV) Order 1998—(3017)
(xii) Public Telecommunication System Designation (International Telecommunications Group Inc) Order 1998—(3016)
(xiii)Public Telecommunication System Designation (VersaTel Telecom BV) Order 1998—(3023)
(xiv)Public Telecommunication System Designation (Telecom One Limited) Order 1998—(3020)
(xv)Public Telecommunication System Designation (UTG Communications (Europe) AG) Order 1998—(3022)
(xvi)Public Telecommunication System Designation (Ibercom Limited) Order 1998—

(3004)

(xvii)Public Telecommunication System Designation (International Telecom Plc) Order 1998—(3021)
(xviii)Public Telecommunication System Designation (NETs Limited) Order 1998—(3001)
(xix)Public Telecommunication System Designation (Worldport Communications Limited) Order 1998—(3006)
(xx)Public Telecommunication System Designation (KPN Telecom UK Limited) Order 1998—(3007)
(xxi)Public Telecommunication System Designation (Storm Telecommunications Limited) Order 1998—(3005)
(xxii)Public Telecommunication System Designation (Cignal Global Communications U.K. Limited) Order 1998—(3008)
(xxiii)Public Telecommunication System Designation (PT–1 Communications UK Limited) Order 1998—(3003)
 laid under the Telecommunications Act 1984;
7.Foreign Satellite Service Proscription (No. 2) Order 1998, laid under the Broadcasting Act 1990.
 (3083)

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6.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Report for 1997–98 of the Lord Chancellor’s Advisory Committee on Legal Education and Conduct, laid under the Courts and Legal Services Act 1990;
2.Naval and Marine Pay and Pensions (Non-Effective Benefits and Family Pensions) Order 1998, laid under the Naval and Marine Pay and Pensions Act 1865;
3.Licences granted by the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry to—
(i)Data Marine Systems Limited—
(ii)Internet Network Services Limited—
(iii)MLL Telecom Limited—
(iv)International Computers Limited—
(v)Qwest Communications International Limited—
(vi)Witley Communications Limited—
(vii)Teleport London International Limited—
(viii)Viatel UK Limited—
(ix)NorSea Com A/S—
(x)The JNT Association—
(xi)EGN BV—
(xii)International Telecommunications Group Inc—
(xiii)VersaTel Telecom BV—
(xiv)Telecom One Limited—
(xv)UTG Communications (Europe) AG—
(xvi)Ibercom Limited—
(xvii)International Telecom Plc—
(xviii)NETs Limited—
(xix)Worldport Communications Limited—
(xx)KPN Telecom UK Limited—
(xxi)Storm Telecommunications Limited—
(xxii)Cignal Global Communications U.K. Limited—
(xxiii)PT–1 Communications UK Limited—
 laid under the Telecommunications Act 1984;
4.Report for 1997–98 of the Medical Research Council, laid under the Science and Technology Act 1965.

Select Committee Reports

7.Delegated Powers and Deregulation—The following reports from the Select Committee were made and ordered to be printed:

First Report, on the following bills:

 Social Security Contributions (Transfer of Functions, etc.) Bill [HL] ;
 Commonwealth Development Corporation Bill [HL] ;
 European Parliamentary Elections Bill; (HL Paper 7)

2nd Report, on the draft Deregulation (Pipe-lines) Order 1999. (HL Paper 8)

8.Monetary Policy Committee of the Bank of England—A Special Report from the Select Committee was made and ordered to be printed. (HL Paper 9)

Public Business

9.Business of the House—It was moved by the Lord Williams of Mostyn, on behalf of the Baroness Jay of Paddington, that the debate on the motion in the name of the Lord Kimball set down for today shall be limited to 3½ hours and that in the name of the Baroness Cumberlege to 2 hours; the motion was agreed to.
10.Agriculture (3½-hour debate)—It was moved by the Lord Kimball that there be laid before the House papers relating to the future of the agricultural industry against the background of falls in farm income and in output; after debate, the motion was (by leave of the House) withdrawn.
11.National Health Service (2-hour debate)—It was moved by the Baroness Cumberlege that there be laid before the House papers relating to rising expectations and advances in medical science and their implications for the National Health Service over the next 50 years; after debate, the motion was (by leave of the House) withdrawn.

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12.Organophosphate sheep dips—The Countess of Mar asked Her Majesty’s Government what is their response to the report of the Royal College of Physicians and the Royal College of Psychiatrists on organophosphate sheep dips; after debate, the question was answered by the Baroness Hayman.

The House was adjourned at six minutes before nine o’clock
till tomorrow, two o’clock for judicial business,
three o’clock for public business.