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Baroness Hamwee: My Lords, perhaps the Minister can clarify Amendment No. 538A. I understand the need to plug the loophole. I understand also that the provision needs to be read in the context of the minimum budget providing for national and international functions, to which the noble Lord referred. However, it seems to put the matter in the hands of the Secretary of State in a way which enables him to deal with them subjectively; there seems to be no objective test of what is satisfactory. The Secretary of State may require that the standard is what he considers to be satisfactory under Amendment No. 538A. Perhaps the Minister will confirm that the term "reasonable" should be implied; in other words, that it should be to a reasonably satisfactory standard or something to that effect.

Lord Cope of Berkeley: My Lords, I simply want to add that the national and international functions of the Metropolitan Police are of the greatest importance. Some of us, including me, have had reason to appreciate some of the national work of the Metropolitan Police Federal Branch in particular, though that is only one example.

That makes me glad that the Home Office and the Secretary of State are still to be closely involved in these matters and to oversee them. It is inevitable that there will be duplication of responsibility between the police authority and the Secretary of State, and hence a potential area for disagreement, not only on money but also on other matters. That is to be regretted but it is unavoidable; it is inherent in the policy of abolishing the Secretary of State as the police authority for the metropolis and creating the Metropolitan Police Authority. That said, it is important that the Secretary of State should be involved in the national and international functions.

Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, I am extremely grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Cope, for his supportive comments with regard to the amendments and for the valuable role of the Secretary of State in these matters. He is right that there will need to be a continued involvement, albeit of a different quality and nature.

Perhaps I may take the point raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, with regard to "subjectiveness" and the question of

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"reasonableness". In applying the satisfactory test, we can read into the wording the term "reasonableness". That applies to other requirements placed on Ministers, whose actions are, of course, subject to judicial review. Therefore, we will have to have due regard to the test of reasonableness in all circumstances. That applies in particular to the provisions contained in Amendment No. 538A.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Lord Bassam of Brighton moved Amendment No. 538B:


Page 325, line 21, at end insert--
("National and international functions: application of requirements relating to reports etc.
96B.--(1) In its application to the Metropolitan Police Authority, section 6(1) shall have effect as if the reference in subsection (1) to securing the maintenance of an efficient and effective police force for the metropolitan police district included a reference to securing that that force discharges its national or international functions efficiently and effectively.
(2) In its application to the Metropolitan Police Authority, section 7(1) shall have effect as if the reference to the policing of the metropolitan police district included a reference to the discharge by the metropolitan police force of its national or international functions.
(3) In its application to the Metropolitan Police Authority, section 8 shall have effect as if--
(a) the reference in subsection (1) to the policing of the metropolitan police district included a reference to the discharge by the metropolitan police force of its national or international functions, and
(b) the reference in subsection (2)(c) to any performance targets established by the Authority excluded any standards of performance established by it in pursuance of an agreement under subsection (1) of section 96A or a direction under subsection (2) of that section.
(4) In its application to the Metropolitan Police Authority, section 9(1) shall have effect as if the reference to the policing of the metropolitan police district included a reference to the discharge by the metropolitan police force of its national or international functions.
(5) In their application to the metropolitan police force, sections 22 and 44 shall have effect as if references to policing the metropolitan police district included references to the discharge by the metropolitan police force of its national or international functions.
(6) Section 81(1) and (3) of the Greater London Authority Act 1999 (minimum budget for Metropolitan Police Authority) shall have effect as if the references to restoring or maintaining an efficient and effective police force for the metropolitan police district included references to securing that that force discharges its national or international functions efficiently and effectively.
(7) Subsection (4) of section 96A shall apply for the purposes of this section as it applies for the purposes of that section.").

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton moved Amendment No. 538C:


Page 326, line 3, leave out ("7,").

On Question, amendment agreed to.

25 Oct 1999 : Column 51

Lord Bassam of Brighton moved Amendment No. 538D:


Page 326, line 7, at end insert--
("( ) In paragraph 3(1) (term of appointment of member of panel), after "panel" there shall be inserted "for a police area listed in Schedule 1".
( ) After paragraph 3(1) there shall be inserted--
"(1A) A person shall be appointed to hold office as a member of a selection panel for the police area constituted by the metropolitan police district for a term of two years."").

The noble Lord said: My Lords, I believe the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, raised a question on this amendment. The grouping deals with age limits as regards Metropolitan Police Authority membership. The GLA Bill provides for a selection panel of three people to be established to start the selection process for six independent members of the MPA. The purpose of Amendment No. 538D is to remove the upper age limit of 70, which applies to being on a selection panel. We have drafted the amendment to specify that the age limit of 70 remains for selection panels for appointment to police authorities outside London. We propose to remove that age limit when removing the age limit for membership of such police authorities. I beg to move.

Lord Lucas: My Lords, I am grateful for the Minister's confirmation that that is all the provision does. It is not obvious from the wording of the amendment that that is its purpose. I take it that the two-year term is common for other police authorities and that that is not being altered by this amendment, so that it remains a standard. All that this provision does is to make it possible for a person over the age of 70 to be a member. If I have understood it correctly, I shall support the amendment.

Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, the answer to the noble Lord's question is yes.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Lord Bassam of Brighton moved Amendment No. 538E:


Page 326, line 18, leave out ("7,").

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton moved Amendments Nos. 538F to 538J:


Page 326, line 29, at end insert ("shall cease to have effect").
Page 327, line 23, at end insert--
(".--(1) Schedule 1 to the Police Act 1997 (appointment of members of the NCS and NCIS Service Authorities) shall be amended as follows.
(2) In paragraph 4 (appointment of core members by local authority members of police authorities)--
(a) at the beginning there shall be inserted "(1)", and
(b) for "Three" there shall be substituted "Four".
(3) After the sub-paragraph formed by sub-paragraph (2)(a) above there shall be inserted--
"(2) Those local authority members shall exercise their powers under sub-paragraph (1) so as to ensure that one of the members appointed by them is a local authority member of the Metropolitan Police Authority."

25 Oct 1999 : Column 52


(4) The following provisions--
(a) paragraph 5 (appointment by Secretary of State in his capacity as police authority for metropolitan police district),
(b) paragraph 8(4) (Secretary of State prohibited from appointing additional member of NCIS Service Authority to represent him in that capacity), and
(c) paragraph 10(4) (corresponding prohibition in respect of appointment of additional member of NCS Service Authority)
shall cease to have effect.
(5) In paragraph 14(a) (meaning of "local authority members of police authorities") for "to the Police Act 1996 (local authority members)" there shall be substituted "or paragraph 2 of Schedule 2A to the Police Act 1996 (local authority members and London Assembly members of the Metropolitan Police Authority)".
(6) In paragraph 16 (which makes provision for the application of Schedule in the case of the Commissioner and Assistant Commissioners of Police of the Metropolis and the Commissioner of Police for the City of London) for the words from "the Commissioner and" onwards there shall be substituted "the Commissioner of Police for the City of London shall be treated as if he were a member of the City of London police force."").
Page 327, line 25, at end insert--
("( ) In paragraph 1(6) (meaning of "police authority members") paragraph (b) and the word "or" preceding it shall cease to have effect.").
Page 327, line 34, at end insert--
("( ) In paragraph 1(6) (meaning of "police authority members") paragraph (b) and the word "or" preceding it shall cease to have effect.").

The noble Baroness said: My Lords, I beg to move.


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