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Greater London Authority Bill

8.43 p.m.

Further consideration of amendments on Report resumed on Schedule 9.

Lord Whitty moved Amendment No. 383:


Page 240, line 27, at end insert--

(“Byelaws for railways

24A.--(1) Transport for London may make byelaws regulating--
(a) the use and working of its railways;
(b) travel on its railways;
(c) the maintenance of order on its railways and railway premises, including stations and the approaches to stations;
(d) the conduct of all persons while on those premises, including officers and employees of Transport for London.
(2) Byelaws made by Transport for London by virtue of sub-paragraph (1) above may include in particular byelaws--
(a) with respect to tickets issued for entry on its railway premises or travel on its railways and the evasion of payment of fares and other charges;
(b) with respect to interference with or obstruction of the working of the railways;
(c) with respect to the smoking of tobacco in railway carriages and elsewhere;
(d) with respect to the prevention of nuisances;

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(e) with respect to the receipt and delivery of goods;
(f) for regulating the passage of bicycles and other vehicles on footways and other premises controlled by Transport for London and intended for the use of pedestrians.
(3) Any byelaws made by virtue of sub-paragraph (1) above may provide that any person contravening them shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine for each offence not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale or not exceeding a lesser amount.
(4) Where the contravention of a byelaw made by virtue of sub-paragraph (1) above causes--
(a) danger or annoyance to the public, or
(b) hindrance to Transport for London in the lawful use of its railway,
Transport for London may summarily interfere to obviate or remove the danger, annoyance or hindrance.
(5) Anything done by Transport for London under sub-paragraph (4) above is without prejudice to the taking of summary proceedings under sub-paragraph (3) above.
(6) Subsections (5) to (12) of section 67 of the Transport Act 1962 (byelaws for railways etc.) shall apply in relation to byelaws made by Transport for London by virtue of sub-paragraph (1) above as they apply to byelaws made under that section but taking references in those subsections to the Board as references to Transport for London.
(7) For the purposes of this paragraph--
(a) railways, railway premises, officers or employees of a subsidiary of Transport for London shall be deemed to be railways, railway premises, officers or employees of Transport for London, and
(b) footways and other premises controlled by a subsidiary of Transport for London shall be deemed to be footways and other premises controlled by Transport for London.").

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Lord Whitty moved Amendment No. 383A:


Page 240, line 27, at end insert--

(“Byelaws: landing places

24B.--(1) Transport for London may make and enforce byelaws for regulating or controlling the use of any landing place which is vested in or operated by it or any of its subsidiaries.
(2) The power conferred by sub-paragraph (1) above includes the power to make and enforce byelaws specifying--
(a) persons or descriptions of persons who, or
(b) vessels or descriptions of vessels which,
may or may not use a landing place.
(3) A person who contravenes a byelaw made under this paragraph shall be liable, on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding level 2 on the standard scale.
(4) For the purposes of this paragraph, “landing place" means any waterside landing place, wharf, pier, jetty, pontoon, causeway, hard, footway or other installation, and includes any associated buildings and approaches to it over and from land.
(5) This paragraph is without prejudice to the provisions of any other enactment.").

The noble Lord said: My Lords, in moving Amendment No. 383A I wish to speak also to Amendments Nos. 475A and 475B which stand in my name. These government amendments relate to the river and waterways. I recall that before I had responsibility for these areas my noble friend Lady Hayman used to get a little laugh in the House of Lords when she talked about powers to create piers, which in this case relates to river piers which TfL has the power to own and operate. Amendment No. 383A provides that power. Previously most of the piers had been

19 Oct 1999 : Column 1031

owned by the Port of London Authority which had its own powers. This amendment provides a freestanding power for Transport for London to have its own pier bylaws to regulate its activities on those piers.

Amendment No. 475A seeks to put beyond doubt that TfL can provide or secure the provision of amenities and facilities which might benefit people using London's waterways. Amendment No. 475B clarifies the position of property, rights and liabilities associated with river piers transferred to London Regional Transport on or after 31st March 1999 but before this clause comes into effect. This provision applies both where the pier is transferred during this period and to transfers made subsequently under an agreement which may have been made during this period. I beg to move.

Baroness Thomas of Walliswood moved, as an amendment to Amendment No. 383A, Amendment No. 383B:


Line 19, at the end of paragraph 24B(5), insert (“, and, in particular, byelaws made under this paragraph shall be subject to any byelaws or directions made from time to time by any navigation authority which has jurisdiction within the area of the landing place in question").

The noble Baroness said: My Lords, the amendments to the government amendments reflect concerns which have been brought to our attention on behalf of British Waterways with regard to the established rights of the waterways. I understand that the Port of London Authority supports these amendments to the government amendments.

Amendment No. 475AA states,


    “this section shall not authorise Transport for London to construct any works or do anything in, under, over or on the waterway without the consent of any navigation authority which has jurisdiction over the waterway".

That measure sums up the thrust of these amendments. I believe that these two authorities seek reassurance from the Minister that the traditional powers that they have to be consulted when bodies wish to build near or on, or use the waterway, have not been eradicated by the government amendments.

Amendment No. 383B states that:


    “byelaws made under this paragraph shall be subject to any byelaws or directions made from time to time by any navigation authority which has jurisdiction within the area of the landing place in question".

I believe that these concerns are clear. I suspect that the noble Lord may even have received the same briefing material as we have received. I hope that he will be able to reassure the House that the traditional powers of the navigation authorities have not been reduced or limited by his amendment. I beg to move.

Lord McNair: My Lords, I wish to add my support to these amendments. I was approached as the vice-chair of the parliamentary waterways group and I drew these measures to the attention of my noble friends. This clearly seems to be a kind of tidying up exercise. You cannot have two bodies making bylaws about the same thing as that will lead to a clash. Each

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needs to know what the other is doing. I hope that the Minister will feel kindly disposed towards the amendments.

Lord Whitty: My Lords, the noble Baroness is correct. When I was in Birmingham this morning I thought I had got well away from the Greater London Authority Bill, but it was represented to me that this will cause some difficulties for the Port of London Authority. I appreciate that there may be potential conflict between the TfL by-laws and those of the navigation authority. I would hope that in most instances these will be resolved at the time of leading up to the confirmation of the by-laws although, hypothetically, that may not be possible in all instances. I am prepared to consider whether we can clarify the position with regard to by-laws.

However, I have some difficulties with the implications of the noble Baroness's amendment. It could imply that a direction could take precedence over a by-law. It is a difficult concept that an administrative direction could take precedence over a by-law. With that caveat, I am prepared to look at the matter again, to discuss it with the authorities concerned and the noble Baroness, and, if necessary, come back to it at Third Reading.

Baroness Thomas of Walliswood: My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his reply. It was as gracious as most of his replies have been during the debate. I look forward to seeing his new amendments. I will be very happy to discuss the matter with him, if necessary. In the meantime I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment No. 383B, as an amendment to Amendment No. 383A, by leave, withdrawn.

On Question, Amendment No. 383A agreed to.

Lord Whitty moved Amendment No. 384:


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