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Lord Weatherill: My Lords, before the noble Baroness the Lord Privy Seal sits down, will she confirm that Cross-Bench Peers will be consulted and have a place on the new independent commission?

Baroness Jay of Paddington: My Lords, the Cross-Bench Peers will indeed be consulted and their role in the organisation will be precisely as it was described in the White Paper.

Lord Coleraine: My Lords, on this occasion I shall say the words which I am sure the House is waiting to hear. I beg leave to withdraw Amendment No. 26 as an amendment to Amendment No. 25.

[Amendment No. 26, as an amendment to Amendment No. 25, by leave, withdrawn.]

Lord Kingsland: My Lords, we have debated this very important issue for one hour and nearly 45 minutes. We have heard many excellent speeches and the issue that lies behind those speeches could not be clearer.

The noble Baroness made a very conciliatory speech in relation to every single matter that affects the appointments commission except the one that really matters; that is, that it should be on the face of the Bill itself. The Government say that they are sincere; but by their failure to commit themselves to put the composition and terms of reference of the commission in the statute, they call into question their own sincerity. For that reason I wish to test the opinion of the House.

7.26 p.m.

On Question, Whether the said amendment (No. 25) shall be agreed to?

Their Lordships divided: Contents, 231; Not-Contents, 189.

Division No. 2


Addison, V.
Ailsa, M.
Aldenham, L.
Aldington, L.
Alexander of Tunis, E.
Anelay of St. Johns, B.
Annaly, L.
Arlington, B.
Arran, E.
Ashbourne, L.
Astor, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Bathurst, E.
Bearsted, V.
Beaverbrook, L.
Belhaven and Stenton, L.
Bell, L.
Belstead, L.
Berners, B.
Biddulph, L.
Biffen, L.
Blackwell, L.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Blyth, L.
Boardman, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Brentford, V.
Bridgeman, V.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruntisfield, L.
Burnham, L. [Teller.]
Buscombe, B.
Butterworth, L.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carnock, L.
Carr of Hadley, L.
Chadlington, L.
Clanwilliam, E.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Clifford of Chudleigh, L.
Clinton, L.
Clitheroe, L.
Cochrane of Cults, L.
Coleraine, L.
Coleridge, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Craig of Radley, L.
Crickhowell, L.
Cross, V.
Dacre of Glanton, L.
De Freyne, L.
De L'Isle, V.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Denham, L.
Derwent, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donegall, M.
Downshire, M.
Drogheda, E.
Dundee, E.
Dundonald, E.
Eccles, V.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Elibank, L.
Ellenborough, L.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Feldman, L.
Ferrers, E.
Fisher, L.
Fookes, B.
Forbes, L.
Freeman, L.
Gage, V.
Gainford, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Geddes, L.
Gisborough, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goschen, V.
Gray, L.
Gretton, L.
Hambro, L.
Hanningfield, L.
Harding of Petherton, L.
Harmar-Nicholls, L.
Harmsworth, L.
Harris of High Cross, L.
Harris of Peckham, L.
Harrowby, E.
Hawke, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hemphill, L.
Henley, L. [Teller.]
Higgins, L.
Hogg, B.
Holderness, L.
Home, E.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Inchcape, E.
Jeffreys, L.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jopling, L.
Kelvedon, L.
Kenyon, L.
Kimball, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kinnoull, E.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Knutsford, V.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Lauderdale, E.
Lindsey and Abingdon, E.
Liverpool, E.
Long, V.
Lucas, L.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
Luke, L.
Lytton, E.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McConnell, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackintosh of Halifax, V.
Macleod of Borve, B.
Malmesbury, E.
Mancroft, L.
Manton, L.
Marlesford, L.
Massereene and Ferrard, V.
May, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Mersey, V.
Middleton, L.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Milverton, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monk Bretton, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Monteagle of Brandon, L.
Montgomery of Alamein, V.
Montrose, D.
Morris, L.
Mountevans, L.
Mountgarret, V.
Moyne, L.
Moynihan, L.
Munster, E.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Napier and Ettrick, L.
Newall, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Noel-Buxton, L.
Norrie, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Norton of Louth, L.
O'Cathain, B.
Onslow of Woking, L.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patten, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Peel, E.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Prior, L.
Radnor, E.
Rathcavan, L.
Rawlings, B.
Reay, L.
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.
Renton, L.
Renwick, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Romney, E.
Rotherwick, L.
Rowallan, L.
Saatchi, L.
St. Davids, V.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Savile, L.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Selsdon, L.
Sempill, L.
Sharples, B.
Skelmersdale, L.
Somerset, D.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Stanley of Alderley, L.
Stockton, E.
Stodart of Leaston, L.
Strathcarron, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Sudeley, L.
Suffolk and Berkshire, E.
Swansea, L.
Swinfen, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Teviot, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trenchard, V.
Trumpington, B.
Tryon, L.
Tugendhat, L.
Ullswater, V.
Verulam, E.
Vinson, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Waterford, M.
Wedgwood, L.
Westbury, L.
Wilcox, B.
Willoughby de Broke, L.
Wise, L.
Wolfson, L.
Wynford, L.
Young, B.


Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Alderdice, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Barnard, L.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Bath, M.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blease, L.
Bledisloe, V.
Borrie, L.
Bragg, L.
Bridges, L.
Brightman, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Carew, L.
Carter, L. [Teller.]
Clancarty, E.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Crawley, B.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Diamond, L.
Dixon, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Ewing of Kirkford, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Geraint, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Gladwyn, L.
Glanusk, L.
Glenamara, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grantchester, L.
Grenfell, L.
Hacking, L.
Hampton, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanworth, V.
Hardie, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Haskel, L.
Haskins, L.
Hayman, B.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L. [Teller.]
Islwyn, L.
Jacobs, L.
Jay of Paddington, B. [Lord Privy Seal.]
Jeger, B.
Judd, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kinloss, Ly.
Kintore, E.
Kirkwood, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Levy, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Lovell-Davis, L.
Ludford, B.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
McNair, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mallalieu, B.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marsh, L.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Mishcon, L.
Molloy, L.
Monkswell, L.
Montague of Oxford, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Newby, L.
Nicholson of Winterbourne, B.
Nicol, B.
Northbourne, L.
Nunburnholme, L.
Ogmore, L.
O'Neill of Bengarve, B.
Orme, L.
Paul, L.
Perth, E.
Peston, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Renwick of Clifton, L.
Richard, L.
Rochester, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogers of Riverside, L.
Russell, E.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
Sandberg, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Serota, B.
Sewel, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shepherd, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Highbury, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Tenby, V.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Thurlow, L.
Thurso, V.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Varley, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Warner, L.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Young of Dartington, L.

Resolved in the affirmative, and amendment agreed to accordingly.

22 Jun 1999 : Column 853

7.38 p.m.

[Amendment No. 27 not moved.]

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