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Lord Williams of Mostyn moved Amendments Nos. 34 and 35:

Page 38, line 25, leave out ("48") and insert ("(Offences under this Chapter)").
Page 38, line 36, leave out ("48") and insert ("(Offences under this Chapter)").

On Question, amendments agreed to.

Lord Williams of Mostyn moved Amendment No. 36:

After Clause 49, insert the following new clause--

Decisions as to public interest for purposes of Chapter IV

(".--(1) Where for the purposes of any provision of this Chapter it falls to a court to determine whether anything is (or, as the case may be, was) in the public interest, the court must have regard, in particular, to the matters referred to in subsection (2) (so far as relevant).
(2) Those matters are--
(a) the interest in each of the following--
(i) the open reporting of crime,
(ii) the open reporting of matters relating to human health or safety, and
(iii) the prevention and exposure of miscarriages of justice;
(b) the welfare of any person in relation to whom the relevant restrictions imposed by or under this Chapter apply or would apply (or, as the case may be, applied); and
(c) any views expressed--
(i) by an appropriate person on behalf of a person within paragraph (b) who is under the age of 16 ("the protected person"), or
(ii) by a person within that paragraph who has attained that age.
(3) In subsection (2) "an appropriate person", in relation to the protected person, has the meaning given by section 48(7F).").

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Clause 60 [Regulations and orders]:

Lord Williams of Mostyn moved Amendment No. 37:

Page 43, line 37, after ("order") insert ("made by the Secretary of State").

The noble Lord said: My Lords, this amendment is technical and is designed to ensure that orders made by courts under the Bill, such as referral orders, are not subject to the restrictions in Clause 60(4). Clause 60 is intended to apply only to regulations and orders made by the Secretary of State; in other words, to secondary legislation, not court orders. I beg to move.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Clause 62 [Corresponding provisions for Northern Ireland]:

Lord Williams of Mostyn moved Amendment No. 38:

Page 44, line 21, after ("II") insert ("(other than section 56)").

23 Mar 1999 : Column 1232

The noble Lord said: My Lords, with this amendment are grouped Amendments Nos. 38, 40 and 45 to 59. The essence of the Saunders judgment was that the use made by the prosecution of transcripts of evidence given to an inspector under the Companies Act constituted an infringement of the right to a fair trial by virtue of Article 6(1). Amendments were tabled at an earlier stage to amend similar provisions on the admissibility of answers given under compulsory powers in other enactments in the regulatory sector in Great Britain. The effect of those amendments, which were accepted, is that answers obtained pursuant to a procedure which includes the power to compel answers, whatever the investigative or regulatory regime, cannot be used as part of the prosecution case except for the limited purposes of proceedings for offences that may include, for example, perjury arising out of the giving of evidence. These amendments make the necessary changes to Northern Ireland legislation by identifying the relevant statutory provision for the "sanction offence" in those UK enactments that are directly applicable to Northern Ireland. They amend the Northern Ireland equivalent to the Companies Act 1985, the Insolvency Act 1986 and the Company Directors Disqualification Act 1986.

Schedule 3 restricts the use that can be made of answers obtained under compulsory powers in legislation that regulates financial and commercial activities. Such answers can be used only in criminal trials in very restricted circumstances. Where the offence being tried is an offence of having failed or refused to answer a question, or failing to disclose a material fact, or for having given an untruthful answer, obviously the answers will need to be used in prosecution evidence. The offences in Section 94 of the Banking Act 1987 are those of having given false and misleading information in answers obtained under compulsory powers. Their omission from the original schedule was an oversight. I beg to move.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

The Deputy Speaker (Lord Ampthill): My Lords, I believe that Amendments Nos. 39 to 59 have already been spoken to.

Clause 64 [Short title, commencement and extent]:

Lord Cope of Berkeley moved Amendment No. 39:

Page 44, line 34, at end insert ("but any order appointing a day in respect of section 43 shall be accompanied by a statement by the Secretary of State setting out--
(a) the necessity for the commencement of that section; and
(b) how that section complies with Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights.").

The noble Lord said: My Lords, I spoke to Amendment No. 39 earlier. In view of the Minister's reply I seek the opinion of the House. I beg to move.

8.54 p.m.

On Question, Whether the said amendment (No. 39) shall be agreed to?

23 Mar 1999 : Column 1233

Their Lordships divided: Contents, 54; Not-Contents, 109.

Division No. 3


Aldington, L.
Annaly, L.
Barber, L.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Boardman, L.
Brentford, V.
Bridgeman, V. [Teller.]
Burnham, L.
Byford, B.
Cadman, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Chesham, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Ferrers, E.
Fookes, B.
Glentoran, L.
Goschen, V.
Hayhoe, L.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hooper, B.
Jopling, L.
Kelvedon, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Luke, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Monson, L.
Montgomery of Alamein, V.
Mountevans, L.
Northesk, E.
Norton of Louth, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Rees, L.
Renton, L.
Rowallan, L.
Seccombe, B. [Teller.]
Stewartby, L.
Stockton, E.
Swinfen, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Wakeham, L.
Wise, L.
Wynford, L.


Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Alli, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Bach, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blease, L.
Borrie, L.
Bragg, L.
Brookman, L.
Burlison, L.
Callaghan of Cardiff, L.
Carlisle, E.
Carter, L.
Castle of Blackburn, B.
Chandos, V.
Christopher, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Craigavon, V.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Geraint, L.
Gilbert, L.
Goodhart, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grenfell, L.
Grey, E.
Hacking, L.
Hampton, L.
Hardie, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayman, B.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L. [Teller.]
Jeger, B.
Judd, L.
Kennet, L.
Kintore, E.
Kirkhill, L.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller.]
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
McNair, L.
Mallalieu, B.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Molloy, L.
Monkswell, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Nicol, B.
Palmer, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Razzall, L.
Renwick of Clifton, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Sefton of Garston, L.
Sewel, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Simon, V.
Simon of Highbury, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Macclesfield, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Warner, L.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Whitty, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Young of Old Scone, B.

Resolved in the negative, and amendment disagreed to accordingly.

23 Mar 1999 : Column 1234

9.2 p.m.

Lord Williams of Mostyn moved Amendments Nos. 40 and 41:

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